Four Stroke Mercury's how long before rebuilding?

**Brad Zastrow** · 01-26-2022, 11:25 PM

I think you just accused me of not telling the truth how fast my MTI would run. Have you ever been in a big cat with big power? I had twin 598 CI, 16:71 blowers, 1300hp with Six drives, 1.24 gears and 38 pitch props. The rpm was 6500+ with a 5% slip. Do the math. 180 mph. Engines would run 7000 rpm on the dyno. I did not have the nerve to go any faster. The boat was a dog until it aired out at 90 mph and then hang on. They are not drag boats and a take long time to get up to speed. The boat cruised at 110 mph at 1/2 throttle. 140 was my normal cruise speed in the Ozarks. I grew weary of the expense running a boat like that. Maybe I sold it ahead of the curve as now the big cats with i/o power are getting hard to sell. When I bought my Talon you could count on one hand how many 36' cat that had O/B's. Now the market is red hot for anything with a porky outboard. Why are you such a hater on the new engines? Have Joe give you a ride in a DW with the new Mercs.

**Chaz** · 01-27-2022, 12:57 AM

There is more than enough proof out there to see what those boats run. To think yours wouldn't be any different would be foolish on my part.
However, some guys in the boating world tend to stretch the truth a bit .. especially when they have had a few. Then to fit in .. uuhhh, yea mine runs xxx too. I've passed boats that claimed to run 100 mph when I watched them struggle to go 95. I've had people say I was going 125 when you went past me .. when my boat wouldn't go 125 if it fell out of a tree.

I said .. LOTO is the only thing that offers any real semblance of proof. If the track is short , it's short for everybody . the outboard boats run the same or a couple MPH slower. If the porky outboards need another four miles .. maybe someone should tell those guys to try a little less wheel ..

Perhaps you missed the "pie in the sky" numbers mentioned a few years ago about how fast the 300r's were. The few that have ran LOTO, lets say didn't meet those expectations ..

Nope, never have been in a "big cat with big power" .

Have you ever been in a 1800 pound car with 1800 HP .. ??? It will change you definition of acceleration and speed ..

The results are on the scoreboard for the world to see. Much like numbers called down from the bluff .. see my point

Hater .. more like a realist. I offer the other side of the coin, and get branded as a hater .. that's pretty comical.

I've made plenty of points thru-out this and other threads. Most I take it were too painful to accept , so they were either ignored , twisted into things I didn't say or met with a barrage of points leading in different directions.
Even when I answered the question poised in this threads title.

The only thing I can say is either I was correct or some people need to work on their acceptance and/or reading comprehension skills ..

**Stoker boy** · 01-27-2022, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Brad Zastrow

I have run my MTI and drove the Mercedes MTI in the shootout in the Ozarks and can tell you large cat boats need more than a mile to achieve top speed. Both of the cats I drove only hit 146 mph back then we had to cross the start line at 20 mph and run a mile. Each boat was capable of much higher speeds. Mine ran 180 and the Mercedes boat did 191 given enough distance. Normally takes about 5 miles or more. It is amazing that the now shortened 3/4 mile course those boats can run as fast as they do. Really impressive. The Shootout speeds are no reflection on top speed of the boat. I will say this one last time the 300X and XS are terrific engines, I am upgrading to 300R for fuel economy with double the gas milage and 87 octane vs 93. I should save a bundle on fuel costs. The resale value of the boat will be much higher.

You guys buy all these high dollar boats and then talk about fuel economy. Are you guys running out of fuel all the time?

**Brad Zastrow** · 01-27-2022, 01:58 PM

Boat holds 300 gallons. To fill the boat is close just over $1000. I normally run through 50-100 gal of premium a day. So yeah $400 in gas a weekend makes you take notice when you can do better for the same speed.

**Stoker boy** · 01-27-2022, 04:57 PM

If you spend 130 K for better fuel economy how long is the payback? I guess it would make sense if you ran the boat as a business.

**Stoker boy** · 01-27-2022, 11:03 PM

I think it’s funny to go out and order a boat with the stipulation that it must run 150+ mph. Then ask the salesperson by the way how is the fuel economy. Personally if I’m going to drop $200,000, $300,000 or $400,000 on a boat fuel economy is the least of my worries.

I do understand people want to save money.

**Chaz** · 01-27-2022, 11:29 PM

The best I can describe it is .. like when I was 15, I told my mom that a RD-350 with chambers had 5 bhp. But not before I practiced with my buddies ..

Practicing with us will make " Honey, we need these new motors, because they get waayyyyy better gas milage than those old clunkers" just roll right off their lips ..

**Stoker boy** · 01-28-2022, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by 282

It doesn't matter if you have a dollar or 1 million, people of all tax brackets enjoy saving money whenever they can. I ran a 496HO in a 28 Active Thunder and when I upgraded to a Merc 525 I would fill it up on the trailer and saved a lot of money that summer. That package was 125k and if I saved 2000 that summer in gas I was very happy. I was happy to sell a Donzi last year with 250 merc 2 strokes, great boat but running offshore was expensive, sucked gas and oil. If I did not buy the Checkmate I would have dropped 2 4 strokes on the back.

$2000 over the course of the summer does not seem like a lot of money unless you only take the boat out once during the summer? If you run 120 MPH and the new motors let you run 180 mph that I understand. Another way to save fuel is to cruise at about 40 or 50 MPH and enjoy the beauty of your surroundings. I guess some people enjoy only having a two speed throttle full open, full closed.

**JPEROG** · 01-30-2022, 10:55 PM

The fuel cost is one thing but not necessarily a deal breaker. Fuel availability is however a deal breaker. "I carried fuel cans in my STV for years". I love the new motors for the simple fact you can run 120 mph for 30 or 40 miles and they are happy to continue. Never before could you do this with outboards. That is why you witnessed so few entered in poker runs/fun runs that covered any distance.

As for the 300R being so fast, l had a 28 DW designed Fat Cat that l planned to complete but sold to a friend thinking l could easily obtain another. Brad has been in one of these boats (and has the experience to trust). The current owner of the 300R powered 28 (an experienced performance boat owner), Z06 man, and l all agree that there is not a faster or faster accelerating 25 to 30 foot cat out there with twin 300s of any label. The R motors are impressive.

I never got to run one at the shootout but when the guy who bought mine gets it completed, it will speak for itself.

Joe

**Chaz** · 01-30-2022, 11:45 PM

There were outboards running long distances since before you (and I) were old enough to drive a boat. Nobody with a 21 ~ 28 foot boat with outboards wants to run on the outside with 40+ foot I/O's , from Miami to Key West. Not because it can't be done, but more because they are out of their element.
The porkchops have brought on big cats .. but they still don't run like the I/O's.
If you fished the Bahama's, you would know that there have been big center console two-strokes crossing ... for decades.

I was wunderin, just the other day. Why I haven't heard anything about any new ..
DWRickGeorgeJohnFatCatJP 28's being put out there .. maybe you can "splain me dis" some time.

Ohh , and if yours / the last one runs better because of the porkys, rather than what the hull is .. I'll be the first one to say ...

**JPEROG** · 01-31-2022, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by Chaz

There were outboards running long distances since before you (and I) were old enough to drive a boat. Nobody with a 21 ~ 28 foot boat with outboards wants to run on the outside with 40+ foot I/O's , from Miami to Key West. Not because it can't be done, but more because they are out of their element.
The porkchops have brought on big cats .. but they still don't run like the I/O's.
If you fished the Bahama's, you would know that there have been big center console two-strokes crossing ... for decades.

I was wunderin, just the other day. Why I haven't heard anything about any new ..
DWRickGeorgeJohnFatCatJP 28's being put out there .. maybe you can "splain me dis" some time.

Ohh , and if yours / the last one runs better because of the porkys, rather than what the hull is .. I'll be the first one to say ...

We lost too many key players for me to be involved in promoting them. If l/we end up with the molds, l will have one for my Florida/St. John's runner. Like l and others have said, nothing runs like one with 300R motors. They run well with XS power to but put four people and fuel in the mix and things become different.

**powerabout** · 01-31-2022, 04:02 AM

Hows are the paper thin castings doing in the Florida sun and salt?
I know yams in Asia have eaten away before they had a wear and tear issue

**aggiestckl** · 01-31-2022, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Chaz

There were outboards running long distances since before you (and I) were old enough to drive a boat. Nobody with a 21 ~ 28 foot boat with outboards wants to run on the outside with 40+ foot I/O's , from Miami to Key West. Not because it can't be done, but more because they are out of their element.
The porkchops have brought on big cats .. but they still don't run like the I/O's.
If you fished the Bahama's, you would know that there have been big center console two-strokes crossing ... for decades.

I was wunderin, just the other day. Why I haven't heard anything about any new ..
DWRickGeorgeJohnFatCatJP 28's being put out there .. maybe you can "splain me dis" some time.

Ohh , and if yours / the last one runs better because of the porkys, rather than what the hull is .. I'll be the first one to say ...

I ran the outside from Ft Myers to Tampa to the Joey Gratton run in 32 DW with 300R and 6 people in it with 14.75/31P Merc 5 blade cleavers.. it was on hell of a ride at 85-100 most of the way.. ****ty, snotty, rough water but the boat will do it.. Ran the inside on way home as we got back at pitch black dark and I had 5 people on board.. Boat will do more than I atleast would want to do with it in the rough.. Lake of the Ozarks is roughest water I've ever seen, including offshore and the DW and MTI OB cats eat it up every day. No disrespect, just saying they are way different than the 24 and 28 skaters of yesteryear

**Chaz** · 02-02-2022, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by powerabout

Hows are the paper thin castings doing in the Florida sun and salt?
I know yams in Asia have eaten away before they had a wear and tear issue

Power ol boy .. we have to remember that the rose-colored glasses do not see into the future. Ten years from now is not even a thought.

However, in ten years .. the ballers of that era will say Ppfftttt .. what, them old azz 300 V-8's . Yesterday's news .. aint no one cares about them ..

Aggiman , what about all them boats with two-strokes that went back and forth from Columbia to Miami from the mid-seventies to the mid ninety's ..

People have a hard time with just our inlets here on the treasure / gold-coast. Let alone out in the gulfstream where at times you can only briefly see the top of a 40' tower on the boat a half a mile in front of you as you both go up and down the hills. Let alone get caught in the middle of a lil "summer squall" .. They don't call it the devils triangle for nuttin ..

**Speed Jr.** · 02-02-2022, 03:41 PM

Sure is a LOT of X and XS motors for sale! Here and all over FB. The 300R seems to be a clear winner on these bigger boats. Glenn is spot on. The new larger hulls with new power can do things that just wasn't possible with the older equipment. 15 years ago if someone said 32ft to 42ft hulls would run the speeds they run today with twin outboards most would laugh. My father loves his new florida pleasure boat with the Merc 300 V8. The dealer said they wouldn't even offer it as a single outboard back in the day with the old 2 strokes. The torque is impressive. Brad will pick up some MPH and lots of acceleration with 300Rs and keep making upgrades as he goes. He has been in enough modern powered boats to see where the gains are. Randy has rigged dozens of new and used Libs with the 300Rs. They are a consistent 5-10mph faster, on the higher end with passengers. Gotta tip your hat off to Merc for giving us something to play with. Yeah might seem pricey but hey most great experiences cost money. Could be a kick ass boat or a hot chick. Lol. Some people appreciate these things, others just bitch about things cause they tend to be unhappy people. Chaz you should just be happy to keep wrenching on the old stuff you love so much. No need to keep dogging the new stuff just because it goes against your narrative of trying to staying relevant. I just got rid of all my gauges in my boat. One big touch screen display now. Hope that doesn't upset you also. Maybe you can go off on a tangent of how gauges with all the wires, holes, light bulbs, fogging up lenses, etc are better? Im just prepping everyone for the next rambling post of yours that contributes nothing to the conversation at hand......

Jr.