Four Stroke Mercury's how long before rebuilding?

[JPEROG]

I know I should mind my own buisness, but i can't help myself. Chaz makes a valid point in longevity being related to the way these things are operated. Our local marine patrol uses twin honda 225's, they get thousands of hours idling around. My buddy put one on a bass boat, and it smokes more than my 2 strokes, after only 150hrs. Another neighbor mounted a 150 four stroke Yamaha on his bass boat. It got a replacement powerhead at 50hrs, timing gears failed. I don't wish these scenarios on anyone. But my poor ass is going to hang on to my old junk 2 strokes, for my little boats.
How about that Dodge Neon that's fast!

I can only speak from my personal experience. 2 of the 450s have 300 hours with nothing done to them other then 50 hour oil changes (merc. recommends 100 hour intervals), one of my 300R motors has 384 hours and it is either at idle or 6200 rpm on my tri-toon with nothing done other then 50 hour oil changes. My "luck" or experience has been great so far.

Joe

[engineermike]

All I did was mention the msrp price. And as per JP's post .. people that have them are asking scalpers prices for them. No need going into how it got to those prices or of business practices of those who hold a hot commodity.
I mentioned .. bring the vig when you go to get it .. How you made the jump to move to a blue state is beyond me ..

You were whining about the price of the superior products and accusing dealers of scalping. If you believe in free market economics, then you wouldn't have a problem with either. It's simple, just don't buy it if you don't think it's worth it. Free market economy determines the price; otherwise it's Socialism or worse. It's not a big leap of logic.

However, there is an economics lesson i can learn from you. Since I doubt you own your own company , posting on company time is stealing .. only scumbags do that kind of thing ..

So now you know what my compensation structure and working hours are? It's a little creepy that you're trying to get so far into my personal business. But you've been wrong about me many times in the past. It seems like you'd get tired of being wrong. Maybe you're just accustomed to it?

Try to stick with me, 4 valve head , 8 cyl motor = 32 springs. You said $105 for a set 105 / 32 = $ 3.28125 each Pretty simple really

Actually I started with the $3.30 MSRP of the valvespring and multiplied by 32, so you just back-calculated what I did. That's not the point though. In post #52 you seemed to have a problem with the $3.28 number, so I asked if you thought it was incorrect. A simple yes or no would have sufficed. Really, that's not the point either. The point is that you were hoping to show the world how ridiculous Mercury parts prices are on the modern engines. The $3.30 ($2.34 going rate) didn't fit your narrative so now you're acting like there's some other issue in calculating the total cost of a set of valvesprings.

I asked for a simple link .. bless your heart .. your still lookin for a bird on the ground ... I gave you a specific parts list, you failed miserably

No one is giving you a link because there's only 3 reasons you could want someone else to post a link here to something that's so easy to find on your own: 1) you're too lazy to find it yourself, 2) you don't know how to find it yourself, or 3) you're playing some sort of game to try to get one of "us" to make a point for you. I tend to think it's the 3rd, but it doesn't matter because I care not to play into any of the three. Plus, I've already shown the parts pricing is in line with the market.

Do you know who Eddie Haskil was, he was a little weasel that tried to look good in front of Mrs. Cleaver . Yet all the while was a low life conniving dog in reality.

You poor thing .. what personal attacks .. Pppfffttttt

stuff that only a little weasel would say. ..

Insult insult insult. I know your modus operandi is to start hurling insults when you're wrong about technical issues. I've seen you do it countless times before. I won't sink to your level, though. This is precisely the type of garbage I was intending to save the thread from by asking you to take this off-line. But I know you want an audience, even if no one in this thread wants to read this crap.

I seem to recall you saying that if you were wrong about something then you'd humbly own up to it. Well, in post 32, you were dead wrong about the torque curve plus you wrongfully accused Mercury of dishonesty. So let's hear it. I'll be waiting.

Furthermore, you've crapped all over basically every 4-stroke thread in this forum for the last several years. Do your 2-strokes even run? How many years has it been since they blew up?

condescending blabbering .. I thought engineers were sposta have an imagination .. come up with your own diatribe .. copy cat

Why would I try to improve on what <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->@John S<!-- END TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention --> had already perfectly labelled? I think you might have a basic misunderstanding of what engineers do and how engineering works.

[Chaz]

Mikey boy ... you need to find a girlfriend

[Chaz]

"Speakin of LOTO .. I noticed that for the last couple years .. the numbers called out from the bluff don't seem to match the sales pitch .. just an observation .."

Charlie,

I think you better attend the LOTO in person so you don't miss it. There is hundreds of miles of running side by side that takes place all week. Come show everyone how fast they aren't....you can stay at my place or park your motorhome at our barn, either way bring your weapon of choice to the shootout and play for the week. Last year there were several people in our group that ran 1500 miles or more in a 10 day period.

https://lakeoftheozarksshootout.com/2021-results/

Rusty Williams ran 126 in a 36 Doug Wright with porkchops, Taylor Scism ran 122 with porkchops in a 34 MTI, Tony Chiarimonte went 118 with porkchops on a 37 DCB--These passes are now 3/4 of a mile. I ran my boat this morning to 133 with a pair of 5 blade cnc 37s (really impressive to me on 87 octane fuel that I can get anywhere and with a full warranty as well--watched testing of a new playcraft 31' tritoon with twin porkchops run 84 mph this afternoon-- NEVER before was this possible until the new motors were released).

Joe

Thanks for the offer JP .. it is the same one you made to me nearly 10 years ago. I'm glad to see I'm still in good standings ..
I got out of 200 mph cars nearly 15 years ago, to get into something safe .. like an open cockpit 100 mph cat ..
Going to a long x narrow lake with a 25' boat to chase down 40' foot boats tells me I would be better off going the week before or the one after if i wanted to run wide open. Much like how only the 50' Geico boat went out on Saturday of the Cocoa Beach race.

Of course you posted speeds of what the 450's ran. 126 is pretty impressive until you think .. Hummm .. TK went 122 in a 90's model 24' with 300x motors, for a half a million dollars less. This thread is about the 300r , and I think I specifically asked what they ran the last two years of the event.

When the 3.0L came out in 1995 , I didn't weld a single one of them back together, put sleeves in what was once carnage and put it back in service. Twenty seven years later, different story.

The shrimheads have been out for a while .. go thru a high service volume dealer (not a hull mfg) and see how many of them they have in different arrays of .. in pieces.

What Pro/Pad said is the beginning of the end of a four stroke .. they don't call it death smoke for nuttin. Valve guides get sloppy, not long after one of the heads break off .. done.

Standing on the soapbox and proclaiming how reliable the porkchops are, is a bit premature. A decade from now .. you can say, I told ya so ...

[JPEROG]

There are plenty of calm and protected areas for us small guys to play in. Tom's run was one mile by the way, give the 450's another 1/4 mile and they will put up another 7 or 8 mph on it. This was never ever an option before the new motors were released. If you want to save money and be fast, put a set of 450's on your 25 and play with Warren in his new rig "again nothing faster" until the next generation is released from Mercury Racing.

Joe

[mr fun]

Yea , but who do the chicks think is hot, that's what counts in the end Fun Out

[RiverRat71]

Joe I love you man but some of us couldn't spend on a rig what one 450R cost. So what about us little guys that want to re-power an older 20' or less? 150-175hp only at best? Come on man. Somebody can do better than that. That's all I'm saying. RR

[Stoker boy]

The new stuff is definitely fast as long as you don’t mind riding through a few ZIP Codes to get there.

[JPEROG]

Joe I love you man but some of us couldn't spend on a rig what one 450R cost. So what about us little guys that want to re-power an older 20' or less? 150-175hp only at best? Come on man. Somebody can do better than that. That's all I'm saying. RR

My son just bought a new 3.4 for his STV. We will see how it performs. I think he paid just shy of 13K for it thru a dealer promotion of some sort. There should be many other V-6 options heading our way from the what the rumor chain says.

Joe

[RiverRat71]

My son just bought a new 3.4 for his STV. We will see how it performs. I think he paid just shy of 13K for it thru a dealer promotion of some sort. There should be many other V-6 options heading our way from the what the rumor chain says.

Joe

I hope so. I'm an Alli guy & plan on rigging another GS & an 02 at some point in the near future. Would like to think there will be options on a newer engine of some sort. RR

[Chaz]

There are plenty of calm and protected areas for us small guys to play in. Tom's run was one mile by the way, give the 450's another 1/4 mile and they will put up another 7 or 8 mph on it. This was never ever an option before the new motors were released. If you want to save money and be fast, put a set of 450's on your 25 and play with Warren in his new rig "again nothing faster" until the next generation is released from Mercury Racing.

Joe

So I take it I am correct that the 300r didn't set the water on fire over the last couple of years since the response goes straight to half million dollar + boats wiff fo fiddys. You can always call or text me , if the answer goes against the narrative

Fast for cheap you say .. what's a 450 , $65,000.00 a copy = $130,000.00 plus.

I'm doing a set of 300x motor's for a guy right now. Parts for each from Pro / $1186.00 + $25.00 shipping . A sleeve from Advanced $123.00 and if he pops for a 3.2 crank add $2100.00 each. So for roughly $3500.00 in parts .. I can put together a pretty stout powerhead that is only a tick slower than a supercharged 4.6L .

It's no wonder that AMA Supercross rules allow for only a 125 cc two stroke bike in the 250 class .. and a 250 cc bike in the 450 class.

Thanks again for offering to let me sleep at the barn ..

[Chaz]

PS

Didn't T.K. go 121 in the 28' on the short course .. ???

[Brad Zastrow]

I have run my MTI and drove the Mercedes MTI in the shootout in the Ozarks and can tell you large cat boats need more than a mile to achieve top speed. Both of the cats I drove only hit 146 mph back then we had to cross the start line at 20 mph and run a mile. Each boat was capable of much higher speeds. Mine ran 180 and the Mercedes boat did 191 given enough distance. Normally takes about 5 miles or more. It is amazing that the now shortened 3/4 mile course those boats can run as fast as they do. Really impressive. The Shootout speeds are no reflection on top speed of the boat. I will say this one last time the 300X and XS are terrific engines, I am upgrading to 300R for fuel economy with double the gas milage and 87 octane vs 93. I should save a bundle on fuel costs. The resale value of the boat will be much higher.

[2thelake]

There are plenty of calm and protected areas for us small guys to play in. Tom's run was one mile by the way, give the 450's another 1/4 mile and they will put up another 7 or 8 mph on it. This was never ever an option before the new motors were released. If you want to save money and be fast, put a set of 450's on your 25 and play with Warren in his new rig "again nothing faster" until the next generation is released from Mercury Racing.

Joe

Yes,

Plenty of spots to play for smaller boats… Would not recommend doing the shootout poker run in a small boat for the regular boater. Would do it again with only a friend in the 24skater since the rear seat can be rough for the passengers. Highly recommend going during the week. My xs motors did well and completed the entire run, was more concerned about changing the oil in my sportys then the actual blocks. People did look at me funny at the gas dock when I had a ratio-rite cup in my had mixing my fuel tanks to 150:1 though

mark

[Chaz]

I have run my MTI and drove the Mercedes MTI in the shootout in the Ozarks and can tell you large cat boats need more than a mile to achieve top speed. Both of the cats I drove only hit 146 mph back then we had to cross the start line at 20 mph and run a mile. Each boat was capable of much higher speeds. Mine ran 180 and the Mercedes boat did 191 given enough distance. Normally takes about 5 miles or more. It is amazing that the now shortened 3/4 mile course those boats can run as fast as they do. Really impressive. The Shootout speeds are no reflection on top speed of the boat. I will say this one last time the 300X and XS are terrific engines, I am upgrading to 300R for fuel economy with double the gas milage and 87 octane vs 93. I should save a bundle on fuel costs. The resale value of the boat will be much higher.

The reason I use the LOTO numbers is it's hard to get the guy on the hill to lie ..
Going by someone's GPS + some ego and a few Budweiser's tends to skew the numbers a touch ..
I come from a place where you can see the numbers down to the ten thousandths column, from the space station. And even there guys say ... It's got more in it ..
If you have the money or credit to spend over 100K on a perfectly good running boat, and are young enough to not let the guy after you get all the goodie out of it .. then by all means by three of them things. They won't be anything more than anyone else can go buy , but they will sit idling while your eating lunch, talking on the phone .. then run over 100 for as long as you want.
Even though they would be under wty , hard to get a concrete answer on parts availability in case they need them. As one guy said a page or three ago, his buddy sold his cuz they couldnt come up with a replacement prop shaft.
Might be time to sell the 300x stuff, and then it might not be. Hard to say if they will be like gold in a few more years, or the mindset will be , no one wants old two-strokes, even if they are X or XS motors.
Me, I'm two years away from retiring .. how deep that will go, is hard to say. I do know that I'm not willing to pull any real money out of my nest egg when I can draw a payment once a year along with a S.S. check that the Mrs. and I put good money in over a lifetime. If anything, I'd rather add to what I've got.
Besides , I got enough 3.0L stuff to last me till I need a pontoon boat with a 50 hp and a map on how to get home ..