User Tag List

Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    USA/CAN
    Posts
    45
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    5
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Vegas V bottom rebuild

    Hi everyone,

    I will be starting my rebuild of the Vegas since losing the transom and will be doing it myself after already paying someone and having it fail. Started out this weekend by building a 24x12x8 enclosure to do the work in which i am setting up a furnace and thermostat in as well this evening now that that's complete. I will start removing and grinding the floor etc. today but wanted to order materials so that once complete i can start on the next step vs. waiting. After lot's of reading and scouring through build threads some multiple times i have put together a list and just want to run it by some of the experts here before ordering.

    Transom- 2x 1.5" coosa(I want to raise the transom apprx. 2-3" as I noticed when coming off plane previously with the splashwell delete water would come over consistently with the 250XS on the back)
    Stringers/knee's- 12# coosa 1/2"
    Floor- 12# coosa 1/2" or 1/2" Nidacore
    Core- balsa(Was thinking Divinycell HS-80 5/8" but from the reading you can hear the water more on the bottom, i am not sure how pronounced this is)

    Resin- Was going to go with epoxy resin
    Glass- 1708 biaxial
    Floor- To cover the floor i was thinking about biting the bullet and doing carbon fiber overtop of the Coosa and not coating with gel coat, just leaving it clear so that you can see the carbon weaves like a hood on a car(anyone have experience with this?)

  2. Likes tnelsmn liked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Floating around
    Posts
    2,780
    Thanks (Given)
    273
    Thanks (Received)
    250
    Likes (Given)
    1848
    Likes (Received)
    1502
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Epoxy gives you the best adhesion and the easiest to work with regarding cure times. Coosa is great I really like it. 1708 is the ticket you can probably do just about all your build with it. Some 1.5oz chop strand mat will come in handy though. Carbon fibre looks cool but it will be quite challenging to get it down pattern perfect especially over coosa which is a little porous. Good plan to do it yourself you should enjoy it, and end up with a very quality product. Post pics as you go
    Hydrostream dreamin

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    USA/CAN
    Posts
    45
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    5
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LakeFever View Post
    Epoxy gives you the best adhesion and the easiest to work with regarding cure times. Coosa is great I really like it. 1708 is the ticket you can probably do just about all your build with it. Some 1.5oz chop strand mat will come in handy though. Carbon fibre looks cool but it will be quite challenging to get it down pattern perfect especially over coosa which is a little porous. Good plan to do it yourself you should enjoy it, and end up with a very quality product. Post pics as you go
    After looking through you're build thread multiple times i will keep it very similar and opt to use the balsa for the core. After cutting some of the floor out there was a core, well pockets of air and mush where the core was at one point. I am surprised how mushy and disintegrated the core was in some areas there was nothing but literally dust. Here is the progress from yesterday evening found some coolers, nuts, washers, etc. under the floor. I had planned on not splitting the deck from the hull but it is a tight fit under the bow and am now rethinking this.

    How do you grind the edges of the glass that encapsulated the core previously flush. I have a grinder with cutting wheels and the blue sandpaper style wheel but want to make sure i do not go through the hull anywhere and do it the easiest way the first time. I am not sure what to do about the pad area it appears a bunch of resin was poured in about 1/4-1/2" thick towards the back 4'
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Floor cut 2.jpg 
Views:	21 
Size:	38.5 KB 
ID:	494702Click image for larger version. 

Name:	floor cut 1.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	26.0 KB 
ID:	494703
    Last edited by cameronj; 10-14-2021 at 10:04 AM.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Floating around
    Posts
    2,780
    Thanks (Given)
    273
    Thanks (Received)
    250
    Likes (Given)
    1848
    Likes (Received)
    1502
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    We have a pile of sanders here. The three most frequently being used are a 1/2” x18” electric belt sander that is perfect for working into small corners and clearing out the pad area. I bought my hull stripped but the pad was still full of a lot of cabosil thickened resin which is when I bought that little sander has well earned it’s value. Plenty of them out there from low buck to 3M pro grade. The second most used tool is a 3M 5” random orbital sander with stickit pad ( not Velcro ) it’s an amazing sander commonly called a Da or dual action sander. Lightweight and strong and cuts fast. I wish there was some easy to source 24 grit disks for it but we have been mostly using diablo brand 40 and 80 grit with it. 40 for rough and 80 for finish prep.

    I also use a high speed air sander like this but you have to be very careful with these things they over spin almost all disks beyond their rpm rating and you will grenade things if your not careful. It strips material very fast but it’s dangerous and easy to blow through the hull with it. That said, it works awesome. I use porter cable burgundy colored backing disks with 24 grit sanding disks on it and use the dial to throttle up/down when loaded unloaded type thing.

    https://m.northerntool.com/shop/tool...2057_200422057
    Hydrostream dreamin

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    USA/CAN
    Posts
    45
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    5
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thank you for all the help. I picked up the belt sander and orbital sander, luckily the pad just pulled right up in one piece i cut into two for ease as it was HEAVY with all that wet balsa and the core was soaked stuck to it or in crumbles in the pad area making that portion easier.

    One thing i am having issues with is getting the single middle stringer out at the front under the bow that looks like it has been there since new. I feel this is where splitting the deck would of helped but now that i have most of under the bow done i do not want to at this point just for that stringer. If anyone has any tips or tricks please feel free to shoot them over.

    Looking through your build thread LakeFever i am contemplating not going with epoxy and following what you did material/resin wise as it turned out very nice, what are your thoughts?

    Here are some pics of the progress which unfortunately i did not have much time over the weekend but still made progress with the couple hours i had. Best news of the weekend though was that I traded the sunk 250XS towards a 300XS powerhead with the DBR tune about to be rebuilt, so will have a power upgrade as well this year once again.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Demolition 1.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	83.9 KB 
ID:	494894Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Demolition 2.jpg 
Views:	13 
Size:	154.6 KB 
ID:	494895Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pad out.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	139.6 KB 
ID:	494896Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Demolition 4.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	128.8 KB 
ID:	494897Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Demo 5.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	119.7 KB 
ID:	494898
    Last edited by cameronj; 10-18-2021 at 09:58 AM.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Tourist Trap, Florida
    Posts
    12,269
    Thanks (Given)
    298
    Thanks (Received)
    858
    Likes (Given)
    4307
    Likes (Received)
    7850
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    If that front stringer is not rotted, just sandwich some glass and divinnycell to it and go on to bigger problems.

    83 V-King, Mercury 3.0 back on the transom
    Let's Go Brandon, Let's Go Brandon.. Yell it till their heads x-splode.
    Rebuild thread:
    http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
    http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
    Videos

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Floating around
    Posts
    2,780
    Thanks (Given)
    273
    Thanks (Received)
    250
    Likes (Given)
    1848
    Likes (Received)
    1502
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Moving right along your not messing around! Derakane has supply chain problems now, apparently out of stock until as late as March? Thankfully we had enough to finish the hull. If you can wait the stuff is amazing imo it bonds up so well and is super easy to lay and roll out
    Hydrostream dreamin

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    USA/CAN
    Posts
    45
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    5
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by XstreamVking View Post
    If that front stringer is not rotted, just sandwich some glass and divinnycell to it and go on to bigger problems.
    It does not appear rotted but is wet from when it sank still about a month ago.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    USA/CAN
    Posts
    45
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    5
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LakeFever View Post
    Moving right along your not messing around! Derakane has supply chain problems now, apparently out of stock until as late as March? Thankfully we had enough to finish the hull. If you can wait the stuff is amazing imo it bonds up so well and is super easy to lay and roll out
    Supply chain issues seem to be the story of my life from work to personal at this point, building back better is not working out to well thus far

    Well epoxy it is than, i do want to have everything ready to start laying next weekend the 29th as the enclosure is just a canopy/tent style and the warmer it is the less gas i will have to use to heat it as i piped the furnace into my gas meter. Where did you purchase your coosa etc. from?

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Floating around
    Posts
    2,780
    Thanks (Given)
    273
    Thanks (Received)
    250
    Likes (Given)
    1848
    Likes (Received)
    1502
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Check your PM's
    Hydrostream dreamin

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    PARADISE /Naples
    Posts
    6,410
    Thanks (Given)
    17
    Thanks (Received)
    183
    Likes (Given)
    193
    Likes (Received)
    982
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Vinyl ester resin is easer to use, with epoxy you have to be exact in your measurements, scrape bottom sides if it's not mixed in the right ratio It will never harden.

    You talked about carbon fiber un coated again epoxy has no UV protection

    Epoxy does not have styrene so your mat will not loosen up, styrene breaks down the glue that holds mat together.
    We have invented the world WE see

    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    1,064
    Thanks (Given)
    18
    Thanks (Received)
    45
    Likes (Given)
    300
    Likes (Received)
    132
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Overall you're on the right track, a few hints:

    - As CUDA said 1708 has mat attached to the biaxial fibers and it does not wet out well with epoxy. It can be done (lower viscosity laminating epoxies work better) but you really don't want to use this fabric with epoxy. Use 17/18ox biax without matt instead. The problem you may run into with either of these fabrics right now is supply - they are affected by the global mess. Composites Canada and Noah's boatbuilder supply are the best places to find this stuff in Canada. A roll of 6-8" "tape" (narrower version of any type of glass) can be super handy for tabbing stringers and bulkheads - can save a ton of time cutting it yourself from a 50" wide roll.

    - As Lakefever said vinylesters are in short global supply. I'm not sure how bad epoxies are right now, but whichever resin system you choose make sure you get some extra because god knows when you might get more. Keep your epoxy inside because the resin can crystallize into a granular syrupy mess if it gets too cold. Consider getting a couple different hardeners so you can control cure speed depending upon temperature and size of laminate you're doing.

    - Get a pair of really good shears to cut the glass.

    - Consider making your knees thicker than 1/2" - for example doubling the knee core to 1" (or even more if you like).

    - If you don't end up using balsa check really, really close in the Divinycell product literature to ensure you get the correct density for a hull core. The less dense versions are not appropriate for the slamming and compressive loads in a hull. 5/8" is rather thick for a boat of this size/type too.

    - As Lakefever said a 1/2" narrow belt sander is super handy for grinding in tight spots - I could not live without mine. Makita makes a 1 1/8" one which is also handy.

    - Coosa or Nidacore can make a great floor. Nidacore is surprisingly affordable (for example, cheaper than marine plywood in Canada). I'd rethink the carbonfiber idea on the floor. While yes it may look cool, it will be hot as hell to walk on, slippery (unless you sprinkle a non-skid additive on it), and yes either needs UV-optimized epoxy or supplemental UV protection (like a urethane clear) otherwise it tends to turn brittle and yellowish in a few years. It is also difficult to get the "perfect" carbon look with the hand layup you are intending to use. To get it visually perfect you really need to infuse it which is a whole other discussion....

    Good luck, you'll learn a ton doing this, really unfortunate the "pro" you hired was such a goddamn hack.

    Matt

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    PARADISE /Naples
    Posts
    6,410
    Thanks (Given)
    17
    Thanks (Received)
    183
    Likes (Given)
    193
    Likes (Received)
    982
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    1708 is stiff any how I'm talking about installing mat as a base before the 1708, doing repairs mat can fill voids like nothing else, giving you really good adhesion but epoxy will not let the fibers flow get rid of air. They may make special type of mat for use with epoxy but I've never saw it? You have to be very fussy with epoxy mixing, a lot simpler to use Vinyl Ester best of both worlds, less BS and chance of screw ups, the first time I used Epoxy 30 years ago I was at the local fiberglass shop using his big table to make sheets of nidacore gel coat fiberglass, the first part we made would not harden because Mr fiberglass did not mix perfect ratios and or mix enough ...
    You see regular vinyl ester resin will set over time especially with heat, I've had whole drums get hard a lot quicker than GP resin. Epoxy maybe if you cooked it in a oven at 200 some degrees.
    We have invented the world WE see

    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

Similar Threads

  1. Hydrostream Vegas V-Bottom
    By MUDSHARK in forum Hulls up to 20'
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-23-2015, 09:19 PM
  2. 1984 Vegas V-Bottom ?
    By atclen in forum Props, Setup, and Rigging
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-17-2015, 08:44 PM
  3. Hydrostream Vegas V bottom
    By Go Time in forum General Boating Discussion
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 01-21-2013, 10:43 PM
  4. opinions of vegas v bottom
    By Ryan140 in forum General Boating Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-27-2007, 09:17 AM
  5. Vegas's without the XT bottom
    By imq707s in forum General Boating Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-30-2004, 04:06 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Aeromarine Research