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  1. #1
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    Saltwater-Friendly SOB Family 20-22 footers with modern 4 strokes?

    Hello all, I'm new here and have been reading tons of old posts on the various SOB boats. I absolutely love the Allison Grand Sports, but my first issue is that I can't find many posts about using them solely in saltwater. With the carpet, I know they're more of a lake boat, but I was figuring I could make it work. The bigger issue is that I have no interest in working on and maintaining an older 2 stroke that a lot of these boats were built for. I'm looking for something that can be bought new, or close to new, with modern 4 stroke power, so I can take the wife and future kids out and have a reliable all around cruising boat, and then go run it 80-90+ with just me on early mornings. Mercury's only real option for the GS is the 150 pro XS, then have it re-geared, or the V6 175-225 and then modify the lower unit - not ideal.

    I love the Tuff 21 and probably the upcoming Tuff 20, but these are basically impossible to find.
    Checkmate Pulsare 2000 / 2100 looks decent but the looks don't do it for me like the Allison GS does
    Liberator 21 looks awesome but the seating/layout and storage looks a lot smaller than a GS, and they're considerably more money
    Paramount 21 / Reaction 19 isn't too bad but they're not nearly as fast, and they're super old at this point - I'm looking for something newer and more turn-key reliable
    Concept 23/27 I love, but the new build prices are out of my price range at this point

    If somebody told me "I've used the Allison GS in saltwater for years and its the best boat i've ever had, run it with a new Mercury V6 225 4 stroke or Pro XS 175 4 stroke", I'd probably just set my sights on that, but as it stands, I don't know that anybody makes a good modern 90+mph engine for it without spending tons on mods and voiding the brand new motor warranty.

    What are some good 20-22 foot saltwater friendly fast outboard boats, that have comfortable seating, reasonable storage and room, and can take some south florida chop, and run out the inlet on the flat summer days? Is the new Tuff 20 likely my ticket - no idea what these cost, and would probably be impossible to get one - just go for a checkmate? What have I not considered?

  2. #2
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    22 Velocity Punisher looks to be a sweet boat too, and it will carry a 300r. Old school looks but a modern package that will likely work very well. Everyone here knows I will say Tuff every single time haha.
    As far as I understand the tuff 20 will be designed to carry a lighter engine like the v6 4 stroke stuff.
    TJ @ Baker Engineering
    Tuff 24 300xs
    Tuff 16 90 Yammie
    3.75@199mph with LSX power!!!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellbents-10 View Post
    22 Velocity Punisher looks to be a sweet boat too, and it will carry a 300r. Old school looks but a modern package that will likely work very well. Everyone here knows I will say Tuff every single time haha.
    As far as I understand the tuff 20 will be designed to carry a lighter engine like the v6 4 stroke stuff.
    That 22 Punisher looks pretty sweet - is the "Punisher" model different than the older Velocity 22 I'm seeing on youtube?

    I actually like that the Tuff 20 is meant to carry a lighter engine - the V6 4 strokes are a good bit cheaper than the 300R, but the problem is, I don't think there's really a good Merc V6 for high speed applications. The 175 Pro XS is basically the same as the 175-200-225 V6 - same lower unit it looks like, same motor mounts. I'm not sure what you can put on the Tuff 20 that will work well out of the box? It seems like you basically have to go with a hull rated for a 250+, otherwise you have to use an old engine at this point?

    Even a Grand Sport with a 150 4 stroke - you either have to go with the standard 150 merc, then swap motor mounts and lower unit for water pickup, or the 150 pro XS, and then have a mechanic swap out the gears from the stock 2.08 to something much taller, and I assume that voids your warranty - It just seems like there's no good hull/motor combo until you get up into 250hp+, Mercury really, really needs to come out with a 225R

  4. #4
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    All boats are salt water friendly if you take care of them properly. If you don't like carpet remove it and lay in some rubber coin edge flooring, I did that on my checkmate.

    Do you want a boat with a 20' to 22' OAL or the hull only be that length? the Allison CL length is only 19', the swim platforms makes it 20'3" per their website.

    The Punisher is the same as the old 22 so far as I have read online. Why do you need to swap the gears in the 150? seems like a lot of cost for little gain.
    Last edited by Pulse186; 09-07-2021 at 10:58 AM.
    On the way: 2022 Progression 22
    Have now:
    1992 Checkmate Pulse 186, 2003 Mercury 200 EFI. 2018 Kawasaki Ultra LX
    Sold: 1991 POS GW Invader, 1976 Donzi Hornet II, 1994 Formula 232 LS, 2001 Regal 2660, 1990 Formula 206 LS

  5. #5
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    Yes, I agree nothing out of the box that is new with a warranty will work well that is under 500lbs. Even the 150xs is listed at 457lbs dry! A lithium Battery and a couple odds and ends an you could remove 50lbs that the 250R would be over it. The 250R is considerably cheaper then a 300r and carries a warranty with a normal non side arm SeaStar steering setup. I bet that engine in the 20 runs 90+ easy.
    TJ @ Baker Engineering
    Tuff 24 300xs
    Tuff 16 90 Yammie
    3.75@199mph with LSX power!!!

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  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulse186 View Post
    All boats are salt water friendly if you take care of them properly. If you don't like carpet remove it and lay in some rubber coin edge flooring, I did that on my checkmate.

    Do you want a boat with a 20' to 22' OAL or the hull only be that length? the Allison CL length is only 19', the swim platforms makes it 20'3" per their website.

    The Punisher is the same as the old 22 so far as I have read online. Why do you need to swap the gears in the 150? seems like a lot of cost for little gain.
    Good call on removing the carpet - could probably go with Sea-Dek also. I don't have a strong preference on an exact length - just something in the 19 to 22 foot range, so its easy to trailer and store in the limited space I have. I've heard conflicting stories on whether the GS is actually good in rougher water. I wouldn't expect to be hitting boat wakes at 50mph, but there are a lot of 3, 4, and even 5 outboard boats around where I live - I'm sure I'd have to slow down and keep the bow up for their wakes, but I've always done that on much smaller boats I had growing up anyway. If an Allison GS is at least as roughwater capable as like, a 15' boston whaler, key west 1720 etc, I'm sure it would be "good enough" to make do with the crowded areas, and then have a lot of fun in the less crowded areas, or offshore when its glass-flat in the summer. But if a Checkmate, Velocity 22 etc is a lot more capable, and can run a 300R, then it just becomes how affordable those boats are with newer power - not sure what their prices are like.

    Swapping gears on the 150 may not be necessary on some boats, but I saw some performance reports with the GS and a 150 pro XS, and the owner was having to run a ridiculously pitched prop to get to the rev limiter, to where it was making the boat hard to drive. He swapped gears and was much happier with the performance and prop selection

  8. #7
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    Assuming the GS is as rough water capable as my SS, itís far better then a VKing, or like boats. But not near as capable as a Tuff 21. I had a brief drive in a 21 years ago. It took cruiser wakes much better then my Allison. The posted lengths arenít that different but a Tuff 21 is a much bigger boat. I am curious to see if the 20 is GS sized or Tuff 21 sized

  9. #8
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    I would bet the 20 is similar to the 21 in freeboard and rough water capability but carries a narrow beam over from the 24.
    TJ @ Baker Engineering
    Tuff 24 300xs
    Tuff 16 90 Yammie
    3.75@199mph with LSX power!!!

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellbents-10 View Post
    I would bet the 20 is similar to the 21 in freeboard and rough water capability but carries a narrow beam over from the 24.
    That's what they were saying on their facebook / instagram - narrower beam. It should be faster than the 21 with less power supposedly. I have NO idea what those Tuff's go for - was it like $50k for a 21 hull only? I think a Liberator 21 is about $75k for the hull and 300R, with most options, I had read somewhere - I'd guess the upcoming Tuff 20 is similarly priced, probably more once you figure import and all the hassle of getting one?

    I love the idea of a Tuff 20 / Allison GS sized boat, that is meant for 150-200hp, but there are no good 150-200hp motors out of the box at this point...

  11. #10
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    The Sutphen 21 is available as an O/B. Very capable boat in that size range.

  12. #11
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    I would hang a 2.5 on the 20 but that is not a new practical power plant by any means!!! Importing them is no big deal I have had two shipped across the boarder.
    A 150xs with 32p prop at 80mph comes out to 8% slip. I bet the 20 will be light enough to achieve that goal if you rig it light too. At 80mph I am not sure how the normal water pick up would work though? Put a 200 APX on it lol, you don't need reverse right?
    TJ @ Baker Engineering
    Tuff 24 300xs
    Tuff 16 90 Yammie
    3.75@199mph with LSX power!!!

  13. #12
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    ...welcome to s & f jupiter24. you in jupiter florida? how fast can you go on jupiter saltwaters up there?
    Last edited by FUJIMO; 09-07-2021 at 01:59 PM.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUJIMO View Post
    ...welcome to s & f jupiter24. you in jupiter florida? how fast can you go on jupiter saltwaters up there?
    Yep, I'm in Jupiter - that's a good question. Certain areas of the ICW have speed limits, maybe 25 or 35mph - to be honest I never look at the signs. I know the wake/no-wake zones from having boated here for so long, and my previous boat was slow so I never had any reason to check the signs, but I'll pay closer attention next time I'm out on the water. I believe others are marked less specifically - "resume safe operation" or something to that effect. I don't know how strictly the speed limits are enforced - you see tons of large center consoles and bay boats running >50mph all the time, and there are less crowded bay areas back in the loxahatchee river where I know you could have some fun. There are a lot of days during the summer when the ocean looks like a lake - I'd plan on running near shore when I want to go fast. I have a buddy with a lake house too - I think it'd be fun to trailer a GS or similar up there.
    Last edited by Jupiter24; 09-07-2021 at 02:29 PM.

  15. #14
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    I have a 2021 Allison Grand Sport with a 150proxs and did cone the case and change the gears and I live on Long Island. I use the boat in only salt water. There are no lakes or rivers anywhere near me. The carpet is annoying but I haven’t have any issues at all with it. I also owned a 1997 21’ Superboat for about 12 years which is also a great boat but very different from the Allison. I would prefer the floor on my old boat which is the textured none skid kinda floor over seadeck or certainly carpet but again no issues with mine so far. Unfortunately you arent going 90+ with any modern four stroke that doesnt have a coned case of some sort without voiding a warranty unless you get a v8 R which weight about 560lb which would suck on almost any fast 21' and under boat. But if you dont mind coning a V6 and throwing solid mounts on running 90 plus or the 150 proxs and cone the case and run low 80's not sure what other options you have. As far as the cost of the gear swap is about the cost of a good prop which for me is well worth it. I dont know if there is a many places that are like where i boat, the variety of water conditions and boat traffic is really something, i can drive in the flats without any boats or much chop or drive the main channels with 60ft plus giant yachts in all directions or even be in the inlet and out by the ocean in just minutes, pretty huge variety by me. THe GS handles better then any other 19/20ft boat that i have been in. But i can take my 21 superboat out the ocean, you arent doing that in any of these small fast boats. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by OceanMarine; 09-07-2021 at 03:30 PM.

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  17. #15
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    Built in Long Island, NY for (rough) salt water.


    With the 250R:

    1992 Progression 22
    Mercury Racing 250R

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