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05-26-2021, 02:04 PM #1
Balsa experiment, It’s only been one week...
General purpose poly resin one quick coat we didn’t even try to coat the top so this experiment is kind of flawed. We had a piece of core we primed in the heat that cured prematurely so we couldn’t put it in the boat. Rather than bin it I dropped a small piece in a mug filled with water with a non coated piece and left it for a week now. The weight of the non resin coated piece is shockingly higher. See for yourself
Hydrostream dreamin
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CVX20SPRINT, SkywayGT liked this post
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05-26-2021, 05:10 PM #2
I'm running a similar test but I couldn't find a mug. All I had laying around was a Hydrostream Ventura. Coated the balsa with resin and covered with fiberglass in 1983. I'm still watching it to see if it goes bad.
Living in the Freedom provided by Bud Conner and his fellow warriors.
R.I.P. my Heathen Brother
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SkywayGT thanked for this postLakeFever, MattGreen, tnelsmn, Hippie459MN, HydroSkreamin, JasonRS, Turtleherder, XstreamVking, scott reierson, SkywayGT and 3 others liked this post
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05-26-2021, 10:26 PM #3
You win the internet today lmao
Hydrostream dreamin
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05-27-2021, 06:03 PM #4
And after a period of time that G P resin will let water pass, Vinyl Ester is you answer
Like polyester resins, they require MEKP as a catalyst to cure or harden. Vinyl ester falls between polyester and epoxy on price, most physical properties, and handling qualities. Vinyl ester resins actually exceed both polyester and epoxy in corrosion resistance, temperature resistance, and elongation (toughness).We have invented the world; WE see
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RBT liked this post
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05-27-2021, 08:25 PM #5
Im using vinylester in my build for everything except priming the core because im using core bond and it doesnt play well with vinyester as a primer so I have to use poly only for priming the balsa core. The top of the core and all the rest of the glass are get the VE
Hydrostream dreamin
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tnelsmn liked this post
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07-15-2021, 01:27 PM #6
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07-15-2021, 04:08 PM #7Screaming And Flying!
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We did this to a few different foams and core boards. Put the same size pieces in plastic bags with a measured amount of water and weighed/marked. Came back in 2 weeks and weighed the bags of water after the materials were lifted clear of the water and allowed to drip for 10 mins or so. Weighed the bags and samples again. Difference was so small our digital scale really couldn't measure it. Basically near zero absorption.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
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noli liked this post
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07-15-2021, 04:54 PM #8
The wet piece of balsa that sunk is noticeably heavier than the poly piece although it still feels every bit as rigid. I imagine the rot process takes a while.
we decided to run another test this time we used the same brick of balsa cut into three pieces. We dipped one in poly, one in vinyl and one raw and we are going to put them in mason jars with water and see how they hold up. Curious to see if the vinylester soaked piece absorbs any or none? Place your betsHydrostream dreamin
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07-15-2021, 05:00 PM #9Screaming And Flying!
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All 3 will absorb water. It's real hard to measure.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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07-19-2021, 12:28 PM #10
I wonder if you could use a moisture meter to measure the water in the samples? Since Xstream's test yielded such small weight differences, maybe a meter would show it?
Maybe even a multimeter set to continuity? Just throwing ideas out there.
My test, same as Transomstand's, is holding up well so far haha.'78 Hydrostream Viking/'98 225 ProMax
Restoration: https://www.screamandfly.com/showthr...Viking-rebuild
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Videos: https://www.youtube.com/tnels
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07-19-2021, 12:38 PM #11Screaming And Flying!
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You could enclose the sample in a glass jar exposed to mild heat (the sun) and observe the moisture in and on the jar.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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tnelsmn liked this post
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10-08-2021, 05:52 AM #12
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10-08-2021, 06:02 AM #13
Coat the chunk on all sides and put some csm around one. Then maybe gel one with csm also
1973 Viper - sold
1978 Viking - sold
1995 XB02
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10-08-2021, 06:17 AM #14
What I did was took one cube of balsa so the test will be all from the same piece/tree. I have noticed some are harder than others so that will impact the results of this first test because they are all different cubes. This piece I tested was a little extra from when I laid my core and we had brushed the resin on. The piece I’m testing this time I cut into three and dunked them into the resin this time so there is considerably more resin on the pieces and being all the same piece it should yield more accurate results. I left one uncoated, one poly, and one vinylester.
unfortunately I have used up all my poly resin. I used it for cabosil thickened radius fills just to use it up on the build so I can’t test more poly balsa anytime soon. Maybe down the road I’ll do more variations but for now I’ll start the second round soonHydrostream dreamin
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10-08-2021, 07:07 AM #15
Interesting test.
The “pro balsa core” claim (beyond weight saving/strength vs pure glass) has always been that it is “end grain” and the theory carries if the outer skin is breached w/moisture, it won’t spread sideways, only down, through the grain.
Although I have probably removed as much rotted balsa as anyone!
A couple of observations:
1. The majority of failed balsa is due improper installation.
Boat Builder mag did a story about it yrs ago and a feature to it was the famous trawler builder, Grand Banks which used balsa in its hills.
They had pics of one opened up to restore storm damage and they peeled off sheets of balsa off the inside of the hull!
It is a sponge and takes either a ton of resin to lay up (I used 9 gls in my Vector record!) or, more appropriately, correct resin/epoxy, designed/thickened for it.
2. When I worked for Nida Core in Fla, we also sold balsa core.
We offered it “coated or non coated”.
As in pre-coated w/resin or non.
We had a customer order that had both and it got mixed up.
I figured it’d be easy to open the boxes and compare.
Not!
It was physically impossible to tell them apart!
I know from experience, it is really, really difficult to get 100% contact when laying it up.
I used balsa for the deck section of the motor bracket on my Convincor project.
This was an approx 2’ x 6’ flat section, laid up on a glass door for the mold side.
I put enough weight on the lamination that I was afraid of breaking the glass/collapsing the saw horses!
I came out the next day to pull it from the mold and was shocked to see all the “dry” areas!
Luckily in an area that was not structurally stressed.
So image following the contour of the inside of a hull!
3. Last one is scored Vs non-scored balsa panels.
I had to repair the sun lounge on my Convincor project (due to removal of the I/Os scoop and poorly sealed bolt holes for the pad.
I mated some patches of non-scored core to remaining scored core.
The visual difference in voids (resin pockets) between the two was shocking!
So w/the scored, your negating some of the weight savings due to excess resin consumption.
There is probably an argument to be had of, the perceived bonus of balsa core done wrong, Vs traditional laminate, done right.
Still a cool test.
When restoring my Sonic in Fla, I took two scraps of Home Depot grade 3/4” exterior ply that I laminated together w/standard polyester resin and two PCs of 2oz mat.
I drywall screened them together until cured, then pulled the screws and threw the part outside.
Into mid Fla climate, no shade from sun or rain.
I checked it a yr later when moving.
The plywood was of course very weathered but I was shocked to find ZERO delamination of the plies or the glue joint!
I then took a hammer to it to try and separate the PCs.
I destroyed the ply and the lamination didn’t release w/o peeling off a veneer of the ply!
This was the cheapest wood and resin money could buy!
I was shocked.
Kind of reaffirming my opinion that correct lay up is more important than materials used.
And/or cheap stuff done correctly, will stand up to anything we’ll do to it.
My last test in consideration of use of ply/polyester resin for motor boards��I'd rather be competitive w/junk I built in my garage than win w/stuff I bought.
I refuse to allow common sense to interfere w/my boat buying decisions.
Checkmate 16' 140 Johnson
Hydrostream 17' Vector FrankenRude I
Laser 480 (?) 21' w/GT 200
Glastron Carlson Conquest w/XP 2.6
Glastron Carlson CVX 20 w/XP 2.6
24' Sonic w/twin 250 Johnsons
24' Sonic w/twin 250 HO Johnsons
19' STV River Rocket w/FrankenRude II
Allison XR 2002 w/Frankenrude II
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