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06-14-2021, 01:45 PM #61
I don't have a trim gauge. I trim by feel. I replaced it with a oil pressure gauge.
Like I said it's all about managing the walk. The longer it runs flat without walking the faster it goes. It needs a little time to wind up, at 63-6400 rpm it's past the HP peak I think.
FWIW I was in the uphill section of the river. The St Johns river runs north. I was running south in a narrower area. The flow isn't much right now, maybe one knot, because we haven't had a lot of rain but I was going against the current. We call that uphill\\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\///
Checkmate Pulsare 2100 with a 2017 Merc 250 Pro XS
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06-14-2021, 11:16 PM #62Member
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I know this thread is about Checkmate 2400's with the new 300R....but since there are so few of us out there, and we all have the same hull, I thought i'd chime in on my 2400 BRX with a 300xs, and 10" set back plate....since I'm having trouble get my top end dialed in too.
- It's interesting to hear so much about chine walk on these hulls. I can't seem to generate enough lift or speed to get much chine walk. It's steady as a rock at WOT, and just about any trim setting or speed.
- Compared to other boat I've owned and driven, this hull likes to run flat and doesn't respond much to positive trim. It does have a tendency to porpoise though. I run the trim lower than any of my previous boats. Very little bow lift when I trim up, NO chine walk, just porpoising.
- The boat came with a 25" Tempest prop, but I followed Randy's set-up advice and bought a 24" Trophy Plus, and have been running the prop 3-1/2" to 4" below the hull.
- The 24" Trophy Plus actually feels a little under propped to me. The boat jumps on plane, pulls hard, and it's fairly easy to run it right up to the 6100-6200 max RPM range...but that only gets me to about 65 mph +/-. When cruising, feels like I'm turning too many RPM's with the 24" Trophy....i.e. around 4000 rpm @ 35 mph
- The Tempest 25" feels like a better pitch for the boat under most conditions. Still pops right on plane, and I can cruise at 40 mph @ 4000 rpm, but still only top out at around 65 mph (with rpm's around 5650.) The Tempest tends to blow out pretty easy in corners though, so it seems like a 4 blade is a better all around choice for the boat.
- Would have been really interesting to see how this hull ran with a notched transom. (someone said Caldwell is testing that on the new 2400s?) or how it would run with a small pad at the back. To me it feels a little glued to the water (not a bad thing) compared to other hulls I've run.
- I really like the functionality of the boat overall, but It would be nice see the 70 mph other 300xs owners are getting, so that i know my set-up is right. My engine only has 120 hours, tests at full compression, runs perfect and pulls hard, so my lack of top end seems more like a prop-engine height-trim issue.
- On side note, I bought the boat used, and the little Garmin GPS that came with it shows a max recorded speed of 74 mph. Don't know if that was on the trailer or he was running downhill :-) since I'm a good 10mph slower with the same prop.
FWIW - Sounds like one of the blogs, Speedboat or Speed on the Water?, just tested a new 2400 with 300r. I haven't seen the article yet, but sounds like they hit low 70's with a 300r...so same range you guys are seeing.Last edited by motuman; 08-06-2021 at 01:03 PM.
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06-15-2021, 05:56 AM #63
Start working with a prop slip calculator. The Trophy is slipping a lot. I ran one too in the beginning. I assume you have a Torquemaster lower? 1.75 ratio? The Promax is going to hook up better. Did you ask the seller what he thought the ideal prop was?
BBLADES - Prop Slip Calculator\\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\///
Checkmate Pulsare 2100 with a 2017 Merc 250 Pro XS
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06-15-2021, 08:34 AM #645000 RPM
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Here's where I'm heading with my 24 Pulsare. This winter I'm replacing the floor and gunnels with composite, purchased new Checkmate seats ( had them made by the upholstery shop Checkmate uses), replacing the seat pedestals with the Shockwave shock absorbing seat brackets and Eddie Marine foot rests). Also going to add a flat pad to the bottom. Can't wait to see the results of all of this. I already purchased the seats, brackets and foot rests. Hoping that I'll see 82-83 mph with this set up.
-Past:
1978 Glastron GT-150
1991 Allison XR2002
1996 Triad V-21 ski
2000 Allison SS 2000
1996Allison GrandSport w/280 Merc
2005 Hydrostrem Venom Comp w/280 Merc
1989 Boston Whaler Mischief W 70 Yamaha
2009 Checkmate Pulsare 2400 w/300xs
1982 Allison Gt 20(total restore) w/200 XRI
http://forum.allisonowners.com/showthread.php?t=11151
2000 Allison GrandSport w/ 280SS
-Present:
2022 Allison XB21 Prosport SUB w/ 280 SS
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06-15-2021, 08:45 AM #655000 RPM
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At least 19% slip with the Trophy and 15% with the Tempest. TraceF3 and myself have around 8% slip with different props. Many factors cause higher slip, weight is one of them. If I have 4 people in my boat the slip increases a few percent. My boat will really lift the bow if I touch the trim button. Do you have a lot of weight in the anchor locker or the bow of your BRX? I doubt you could have that much extra weight. Is the GPS working correctly? It appears to have read 74 mph at one time? The boat built before mine was a BRX with a 300 PRO XS 4 stroke (3rd last boat Checkmate built) and it left the factory with a 25" Tempest and I believe that turned 5800 rpm at 70 mph which was 11% slip. So it appeared to have less drag than your hull with the same prop for some reason. Drag is slip as well, and your description sounds like the boat just won't lift and run free, causing more drag. I typically run mine 4" below, and the lower it is the better it responds to trim, but if anything I have too much bow lift. How far have you tried to trim the engine up? Until it slows down due to excessive slippage? Have you tried to contact the previous owner like TraceF3 suggested? I would be interested how he got that 74 mph GPS reading, unless the Garmin was installed used from another boat or they turned it on while on the trailer.
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06-15-2021, 11:10 AM #66Member
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Thanks for the replies. Thats a good data point with the 2400 BRX and a tempest 25'.
My most recent runs were 2 people on board and just under 1/2 tank of fuel. Standard anchor in the hold, and only life vests and fenders under the bow seats.
After my test runs 2 weeks ago, I used merc's prop slip guide and came up about with 17% on the trophy and about 15% on the Tempest, so I knew something was off.
Based on what I'm hearing, my best guess is that I'm still running the engine a bit too high. I tried every combination of trim, but the boat doesn't seem to respond to trim as much as I'm used too, and when I trim too high I see the speed start to fall off, but no chine walk.
I have a manual Bob's jack plate (10"), so I can't adjust on the fly. When I measured the prop height, I used a level and made some marks on the jack plate...maybe I was holding the level perfectly horizontal, but not exactly parallel to the bottom of the hull?
So running the engine lower seems like the obvious next step. I recall when I first corresponded with Randy about set-up, he said if the engine is not deep enough it won't be able to carry the bow (may have read that somewhere here too) and that pretty much describes my problem.
As everyone knows Randy had a lot of seat time with the 2400's and 300xs combo, and was pretty confident the trophy 24 was the right prop though...but guess I should double check my gear ratio on the Torquemaaster, just to be sure there too.
Im going to remeasure and try a lower engine height, but my local lakes are just about dry with the California drought, so It might be a while before I get to do top end testing.
FWIW - I kind of think of my boat as a "rescue" like saving a dog from the pound. It's in great condition, and has low hours, but the previous owner didn't have a clue. He bought it to use as a wakeboard boat for his kids, mounted a wakeboard tower and quickly found out it wasn't a great choice. H said he kept blowing out the Tempest 25 in turns (never tried other props) and cranked the jack plate full down. So when he trimmed up to trailer the boat, it crushed and cracked the rigging tube, which I had to replace. There was a dozen other little things with the boat and trailer I had to correct...ie.
- The interior is mostly great but has little spots of green here and there that looked like epoxy. When I pulled the interior panels off the access the gunnels I saw that he put some band-aid patches of fiberglass mat to "back up" the wake board mounting holes. The glass mat was barely attached with, you guessed it, green resin. So he managed to get green resin in about 6 or 7 little spots all over on the upholstery.
- when I lifted the back seat, I could see some screws tips poking through into the storage compartment. Turns out he mounted a stereo amp the the back wall of the storage compartment with drywall screws, and just drove them through thin layer of fiberglass into the storage hold
I could go on, but this is already a thread jack and at at least most items were minor and correctable. So as far as contacting the previous owner, I don't think there is much to gain there. But this thread reminds me to contact the owner before him, as I still have his contact info somewhere.
Good luck with the set-up guys, look forward to hearing your about progress.Last edited by motuman; 06-15-2021 at 11:24 AM.
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06-15-2021, 11:15 AM #675000 RPM
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Is the wakeboard tower still attached to the boat? That would be drag...
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06-15-2021, 11:23 AM #68Member
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no, the wakeboard tower was removed.
BTW - Here is what I used to fill a couple of the holes. These work really great for places you need a bumper and don't have a cleat.
https://www.wholesalemarine.com/phen...-fender-cleat/
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06-15-2021, 11:34 AM #69Member
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On another note, I'm looking for some info and haven't had any luck on the Checkmate forum or contacting Caldwell Marine.
FWIW - Caldwell claims they don't have any info on boats they didn't build...ie. gelcoat color codes, hardware, hinges, etc.
- So I am trying to find the gelcoat color code for white that Checkmate used about 7-10 years ago. Seems to be the same on boats of that vintage. I need to make some small repairs and don't have a sample I can send out to scan.
- Also trying to find rubber socket connectors they used to secure the interior panels. I need to replace a couple of mine.
Last edited by motuman; 06-15-2021 at 11:37 AM.
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06-15-2021, 11:54 AM #705000 RPM
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You may already have done so, but if you post that in the Checkmate forum, I think will get the correct answers for the gelcoat supplier and color and those ball and socket fittings
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06-15-2021, 12:05 PM #71Member
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08-06-2021, 12:41 PM #72
Top speed and propeller test update 8/6/2021
Met Randy at Wildman Lake this morning to try out several props on his Superboat and my Checkmate.
Regarding the Checkmate here are the variables: Temperature was 82 when I left the ramp. There was a slight breeze and a slight chop on the lake. Due to the new gas tank, additional foam, new floor, and heavily laid fiberglass work I've done the boat is certainly heavier than it left the factory but I don't know how much heavier.
I left my gear in, 2 anchors chain and rode, bumpers, 4 vests, a lunch box sized first aid kit, a beach umbrella, and I only have one battery. What wasn't in the boat that usually is was ME at 210 lbs, my sweetie at 125, her beach bag, and our cooler, probably weighing 25 pounds loaded. I'm guessing Randy goes about 170. So a net of approximately 200 pounds less than my typical load.
Randy made one trip down the lake and back with 3 different props for a total of 3 trips and 8.3 miles. So from idle to turn around it is less than a mile. He felt the boat was easy to drive and all systems (new power hydraulic steering, jack plate, etc) were working 100%. The motor has 41.9 hours on it and it used 3.9 gallons of gas according to Smartcraft.
The highest speed achieved was 76.1 mph measured and saved thanks to Garmin. RPM's were observed by Randy on Smartcraft set to digital display.
Mercury Racing Fury 24/4 - 75.4 mph at the limiter. Assuming 6500 rpm that's almost 10.7% slip.
Mercury Racing ProMax 24.5 - 76.1 mph at 6400ish. That's about 10.3% slip.
Third prop was a Hill Pleasure 5 in 23p and it only got to 71 mph.
Randy needed to go to work and I needed to get here to my showroom for an appt but I feel like he could have gone faster if we had more time. So my boat is officially in the 75 mph club. I just need a little more seat time to get it there myself. And I haven't driven it yet with the PM 24.5 since I got it back from Mercury racing.
More to come!
.Last edited by TraceF3; 08-06-2021 at 12:44 PM.
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Checkmate Pulsare 2100 with a 2017 Merc 250 Pro XS
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08-06-2021, 12:56 PM #735000 RPM
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Good Job, Trace. Perhaps 1 mph for the loss of weight but the ProMax should still do 75 with you and your wife. I ran mine yesterday after the injector harness for #7 was replaced, all the plug wires, and after I did another 1.5 hours of hard break in. With the same 24FS prop, my wife and me and a bit less than 1/2 tank, I turned the prop to 6355 rpm and I raised the plate another 1/4" so I was at 3.5" below where I usually run 4.00" - 3.75" below. I have not figured out how fast I really went, but I would say at least 74 mph. My wife's hand held phone app said 75 mph and that was when I let off but here numbers were slowly climbing. The digital recall from my Livorsi GPS speedo said 73 mph, and the actual needle on the Livorsi GPS speedo said 75 mph, so I am calling it 74 mph and splitting the difference. I was on very smooth water (it likes a bit of chop better) and let it stretch its legs like you suggested for at least 1 minute at WOT while I tried my best to minimize the chine walking.
I am really interested in your ProMax prop based on your results. You bought a 24.5 PM ProFinished prop and had Mercury look at it. When they said they "labbed it" do you know if they just B & B it or did they thin the blades like a labbed ProMax. I would like to get the same prop on mine but not sure I will get the same if I simply buy a new Pro Finished 24.5P ProMax prop. Sounds like Randy can drive it easier than I can, which is no surprise. With the slightly higher slip, did he run the jack plate higher than you usually do, or trim it more? Thanks again for the excellent info.
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08-06-2021, 01:10 PM #74
You've asked me a couple times what exactly they did and the answer is I do not know exactly. I don't have a direct line to MR and the first time I talked to them it took 4 or 5 days from the time I called to get a call back from them so I haven't tried again. I can tell you the prop is obviously a much better performer than it was when I bought it new. In comparing it to my PM 23 I started with the blades do seem a little thinner...
I don't know how much Randy trimmed the motor compared to me, I was on shore. But he did mention that he moved the jack plate up and down and it was very near where I usually run it, which would be 3 3/4 below. That seems to be the sweet spot.
For your situation I'd go with the phone GPS numbers. I'm sure they're all close but obviously one is better than the other. The Livorsi module? IDK how accurate they are.
I'm not keeping all these props. I asked Randy which he'd keep if he were me and he said the Fury4. So I'm gonna run the PM and Fury another time or two and then sell one of them. I'm keeping the PM 23 for heavy loads when I take friends, etc.
Good luck and be safe\\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\/// \\\///
Checkmate Pulsare 2100 with a 2017 Merc 250 Pro XS
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11-16-2021, 11:46 AM #755000 RPM
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Well, finally, on this past Oct. 20th I followed TraceF3 into the 75 mph club. I copied Trace's prop choice but went with a ProMax 24P Pro Finished prop. I ran 76 mph @ 6348rpm. I had normal weight in the boat and my wife and me but I also had some help. It was 58* - 60*F that morning with glassy water. I ran 75 mph on the first attempt and then raised the plate another 1/4 - 3/8" of an inch to 3.25" below. The chine walking improved on the run with the plate higher. I only have about 50 rpm left until it starts pulling power, so if the moon and stars are just right, I think the best I could see with that prop in cold air is 77 mph.
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