Phantom 25 1985 - Merc 450R

**mrpenguin** · 07-13-2021, 12:36 PM

I think once she loosens up and under the right conditions, you can tag 95mph. Congrats.

**Toffen** · 07-19-2021, 04:15 PM

Hi,

its a straight V no pad. Ol style offshore race hull.

Cheers Toffen

Originally Posted by Forkin' Crazy

5.5' beam? That is narrower than mine at 6'! It is a padded V?

Looks great! I was looking at those motors. 400R vs 450R.... So a 21 pound gain for 50hp? Win, win!!!

**Affromax** · 07-24-2021, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Toffen

Suddenly it was there... Attachment 487727

Greetings from the us,
I was directed to contact you concerning locating a phantom 25. I tried to PM you but your message box is full.

Thanks
Aaron

**baja200merk** · 07-26-2021, 12:41 PM

Guys are installing cheap transmission coolers in the low pressure side of the steering to stop the overheat issue.

**Toffen** · 07-26-2021, 03:44 PM

Hi Aron,

Pls feel free to send me an email toffengunnufsen@gmail.com

Cheeers, Toffen

Originally Posted by Affromax

Greetings from the us,
I was directed to contact you concerning locating a phantom 25. I tried to PM you but your message box is full.

Thanks
Aaron

**Brad Zastrow** · 07-26-2021, 04:17 PM

This is a very helpful thread. Thanks Toffen. I find it interesting how much faster the four strokes run than the twin 2.5 SS (assume they are 260hp each). The 450 does seem to be big improvement over the 400R. The 4.6L torque is amazing.

**JPEROG** · 07-26-2021, 05:37 PM

I have had the same issues with the steering heat (I actually popped the fuse on our first outing). We have put the large transmission cooler in the return line and are running 0-30 mobil 1 oil which seems to help. The single 450 with the updated high pressure Verdo pump and Char Lynn helm still gives some feedback "bigger propellers and skeg along with more torque then we have ever had on tap" but the pull sure is nice.

Are you going to try coming up another 1/4 or have you already been there didn't see any gain?

Joe

**engineermike** · 07-26-2021, 05:42 PM

I went down the path of upgrading the steering fluid to a true hydraulic fluid of slightly higher viscosity plus a higher viscosity index. It doesn’t get hot enough to damage the oil or components; it just slips more than I care for and makes funny noises. A higher viscosity pao would maintain cold viscosity to a higher temp and perform the same. Eventually I adjusted my driving habits to reduce the constant minor corrections and the issue is tolerable now.

**Toffen** · 07-27-2021, 02:59 PM

Hi Brad,

They were 280 HP each with PCU. The engines were tuned by Micheal Werner from Germany (world champ F1). We tried lots of props and engine heights, but max speeed was 87 mph once.

Strange. But the boat loved the set up. Great stability and attack in high seas.

Cheeers, Toffen

Originally Posted by Brad Zastrow

This is a very helpful thread. Thanks Toffen. I find it interesting how much faster the four strokes run than the twin 2.5 SS (assume they are 260hp each). The 450 does seem to be big improvement over the 400R. The 4.6L torque is amazing.

**Toffen** · 07-27-2021, 03:05 PM

Thanks !

We will install a cooler after this season.

We tried to go up to 2,25" but we did not gain any speed. Just rpm. The water pressure above 21 psi, so the potential for a 5 blade cleaver to pull the boat faster is possibly there

New test this Friday. Last time the water was glass, and I know that my Phantom does not like that. Hopefully we can reach 95 mph this time.

The engine sips more fuel thats sure. However, if you drive 3,500 rpm at 52 mph I manage almost the same figures as my 400R - 4,5 MPG.

Cheeers, Toffen

Originally Posted by JPEROG

I have had the same issues with the steering heat (I actually popped the fuse on our first outing). We have put the large transmission cooler in the return line and are running 0-30 mobil 1 oil which seems to help. The single 450 with the updated high pressure Verdo pump and Char Lynn helm still gives some feedback "bigger propellers and skeg along with more torque then we have ever had on tap" but the pull sure is nice.

Are you going to try coming up another 1/4 or have you already been there didn't see any gain?

Joe

**hydroo** · 07-29-2021, 08:17 AM

Great Post!

**Toffen** · 07-29-2021, 10:54 AM

Hi!

Here are we doing 93 mph with 2 persons. Second day out. A wave emerged so I had to turn left in 93

I will try to get hold of some more videos.

https://www.facebook.com/654500931/v...06775437261973

Cheeers, Toffen

**river rocket** · 07-30-2021, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by JPEROG

I have had the same issues with the steering heat (I actually popped the fuse on our first outing). We have put the large transmission cooler in the return line and are running 0-30 mobil 1 oil which seems to help. The single 450 with the updated high pressure Verdo pump and Char Lynn helm still gives some feedback "bigger propellers and skeg along with more torque then we have ever had on tap" but the pull sure is nice.

Are you going to try coming up another 1/4 or have you already been there didn't see any gain?

Joe

I will be running the updated mercury pump and the mercury helm with a 450R, is that the combination that is overheating?

**JPEROG** · 07-30-2021, 01:01 PM

I have a Char Lynn helm. Just keep an eye on your line temps-I would go ahead and plumb a cooler into your return line (it can't hurt). Also use 0-30 mobil 1 for fluid-it is the balanced weight that seems to make things happy (mercury has done a bunch of testing in this area).

Joe

**Toffen** · 08-01-2021, 09:12 AM

Hi!

My steering is getting worse.... It makes funny noises after cruise speed as well, and is less presice. Its also harder to turn the wheel at idle. Hmmm. I suspect the oil changed its caracteritics after getting hot.

I bought the new updated pump (1650 psi) since I was under the impression that it was needed due to 450R torque and running high. However, I beleive the new HD pump is foremost for dual and multiple engine setups. In Merc's press release it states: " Mercury Racing says its new HD power steering pump and Mercury Racing High Flow Helm deliver a new level of high-performance steering for boats powered by multiple outboard motors, including the Mercury Racing 450R outboard. The introduction of the HD pump allows high-performance boat builders to assemble a complete, validated steering system for almost any application using components from Mercury Racing. " And furter: "The HD pump may also be used with Mercury 40cc and 50cc helms, but the 80cc helm requires the HD pump to meet its flow requirement."

With my 400R I used the pump delivered with the 350SCI and experienced no problems. If I am correct there are a Generation B pump. Whats the specs for that one? I may have to swop ....

Cheeers, Toffen