It is going to incredible when battery technology looses the weight

**rdoaner** · 04-21-2021, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by SS Minnow

On the plus side, if these things are that prone to catching fire and burning up the occupants, maybe there is a silver lining on the horizon. We should definitely encourage the liberals to keep buying them.

I hope this isn't an unpopular opinion here, but DON'T wish death upon half of Americans. I love American, and Americans... for me it's America first.

BTW, speculation doesn't change the fact that an IC car is 11 times more likely to go up in flames than a Tesla.

Also why is there such strong association between political affiliation and an electric car? A Tesla is a car that can smoke most every other car off the line, is extremely simple and reliable, requires almost no maintenance, costs very little to operate, and has better crash test ratings than pretty much everything. Buying one isn't liberal or conservative thinking... it's just smart thinking.

**rdoaner** · 04-21-2021, 01:46 PM

Actually pretty interesting, I read about this company, they teamed up with Torqeedo to develop the first outboard purpose-built for a hydrofoil. Has a 55 mile range at about 25mph. That's plenty for most casual boaters. But the main advantage of course would be the lack of operational costs, reliability, and ride quality with the hydrofoil! I wonder if hydrofoils will dominate the boating market at some point, they're ugly, but offer a lot of advantages

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa63izfR26s

**JPEROG** · 04-21-2021, 01:56 PM

Everyone needs to go back and read the title of this thread. Until then it is a moot issue. We have the motor technology and their are many groups working on the battery tech. but its a long way off before they will become available and or affordable. Then the grid as I and many other have mentioned is complete different item that we will need to overcome for cars, boats, or anything else that requires a speed charger.

Joe

**Dave S** · 04-21-2021, 07:00 PM

Political? It is being forced on us..... the New green deal.....

.... BS......the crooks.... want to steal our life style.....Tear down the gas pump and put up charging stations.......get rid of the tanker truck and put in ........ miles of COPPER wire.......at what cost? What we now have works...... Political wants to RUIN it............Wake up........

**CUDA** · 04-21-2021, 07:13 PM

You can keep all your gas toys no problem relax

Green New Deal (GND) proposals call for public policy to address climate change along with achieving other social aims like job creation and reducing economic inequality. The name refers back to the New Deal, a set of social and economic reforms and public works projects undertaken by President Franklin D. Roosevelt in response to the Great Depression.^[1] The Green New Deal combines Roosevelt's economic approach with modern ideas such as renewable energy and resource efficiency.^[2]^[3]
A prominent 2019 attempt to get legislation passed for a Green New Deal was sponsored by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) and Sen. Ed Markey (D-MA) during the 116th United States Congress, though it failed to advance in the Senate.^[4] In the European Union, a 2019 proposal from the European commission for a European Green Deal was supported by the European Council, and in January 2020, by the European Parliament as well.^[5]
Since the early 2000s, and especially since 2018, other proposals for a "Green New Deal" had arisen both in the United States and internationally.^[6]^[7]^[8] The first U.S. politician to run on a Green New Deal platform was Howie Hawkins of the Green Party when he ran for governor of New York in 2010.^[9] Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein ran on a Green New Deal platform in 2012 and 2016.^[10

**Dave S** · 04-21-2021, 07:51 PM

HeeHee.... the new green deal$$$$$$$ PayolaaaH.......When Gov gets into it it warps ........

Let green grow on it's own strong PROOF.........

**JPEROG** · 04-21-2021, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by SS Minnow

Actually, if you literally read the thread title, it makes no sense. I think the word you were looking for was loses, not looses. But that would just be nit picking, right?

Battery technology will get there, eventually. Economies of scale will bring the price down, eventually. And as the old batteries pile up in a junkyard in the bad side of town, someone will eventually figure out a way to recycle them.

So the two problems I see is what to do when they catch on fire. Yes, I know that IC are 11 times more likely to catch fire. Great, thanks for answering a question nobody asked. What I want to know is what are we going to do about putting them out when they catch on fire. The one example noted it took fireman 4 hours and 30,000 gallons of water and the fire was still not out. They never explained how or even if they put the fire out. For all we know, it is still burning. So while they may be 11 times less likely to start on fire, they are how many times harder, if even possible to put out once they do light?

And then the other un-answered question is what to do about charging? As I posted in #76 the rate to gain 170 miles of range per hour is 300 amps at 400 volts. That is a huge demand for just one car. Sure the slow charge would work OK for some, but definitely not for all, not even for most.

Loses is correct--I have a family member that is at the top of Delphi and he offers some knowledgeable information. The new batteries are going to be expensive but they are also very recyclable. Autonomous vehicles will be part of our existence-there is lots of stuff that will be coming to market in short order.

Joe

**CUDA** · 04-21-2021, 10:28 PM

https://youtu.be/8n5Wf7TlGrU

**powerabout** · 04-22-2021, 02:14 AM

I can remember when several major car and truck manufacturers were lobbying for 42v electric system so help reduce the wire and current size in cars and trucks, it was dumped as viewed as too dangerous to first attenders at an accident.

lol, so we raised the voltage 10 times and its now safe?

Would you use water to put out a stick welding machine that was on fire, they will be battery powered soon.

https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2002-01-3557/

**LakeFever** · 04-22-2021, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by powerabout

I can remember when several major car and truck manufacturers were lobbying for 42v electric system so help reduce the wire and current size in cars and trucks, it was dumped as viewed as too dangerous to first attenders at an accident.

lol, so we raised the voltage 10 times and its now safe?

Would you use water to put out a stick welding machine that was on fire, they will be battery powered soon.

https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2002-01-3557/

I remember that clearly as well. Funny how things change like this. Safety? Climate climate climate what’s safety for to do with anything?

as for these green jobs? Take a look at Ontario Canada and see how all that nonsense worked out. Manufacturing industry was decimated in Ontario under liberal rule and green jobs were promised and didn’t come anywhere close to delivering promised numbers. Windmill turbines were installed all over the place and the entire result was just over 1% of grid power but the cost of electricity tripled to provide this 1% reduction. Then there was the great fire that burned enormous amounts of land decimating eco systems and pouring more raw carbon in the air than all the savings of the turbines combined would have done. Green? Horse apples and lies is all it is. Fact check this it’s a proven example.

then let’s take a look at Denmark where it really got out of hand.

horse manure piled on ten feet deep. Show us one example of any of these stores that worked out the way they were promised? Or even close to?

**Chaz** · 04-22-2021, 08:42 AM

9% of Covid relief actually went to the American people.

About the same is going towards the infrastructure bill. Infrastructure isn't public works , bridges , highways , police and fire stations ... No,No No .. it's putting in place non Americans all over the country , and giving them voting rights along the way.

These are the same clowns , that want you to move about in battery cars. can't go to far , to quick .. just in case they want you for something . Something terrible like donating money to the NRA , posting America first idea's on Fakebook .. things that Make America Great Again ..

I'm so glad I grew up in a time where I could ride my bicycle to the local "spot" be part of "the scene" with my friends .. Look at all the Cars , bikes , pretty girls , I can't wait to grow up .. so I can be like them.

I drove a 396 four speed car to high school ... I think I paid .30c for "high-test" gas and around $40 dollars for a "Isky 5-cycle cam" .. We talked a lot of **** in that parking lot .. and then went out in the woods to settle "the list" ..
What do they do now .. wisp their way to "the spot" leave their masks on , windows rolled up , AC on , text my battery has more volts left than yours does .. ???
Pathetic what some (most) of us have turned into . The ones who are too young to remember .. or just not into building something different .. will never know.
They maybe might find and old episode of Happy Days , just to see what The Fonz was really about .. If you never seen Milner's five window .. just spend the rest of your life going from a little cubicle .. to your oversize golf cart .. BTW , let the POS drive home for you .. your skills will diminish even more ..

**JPEROG** · 04-22-2021, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by SS Minnow

I have a family member that is at the top of the world. And while they do not tell me anything about batteries that do not exist yet, it does not take a genius to tell me that nobody knows what it is going to take to properly dispose of or recycle something that does not even exist yet.

As far as autonomous vehicles, the only ones that will be fully used to their capacity in our lifetimes will run on rails. And those will still have a human there to make sure everything is working as it should.

Uneducated and inaccurate responses but as long as you are comfortable believing it then all is good (maybe you are old enough to say that "in your lifetime" but don't cut me that short)-I never thought that I would witness an election stolen in the U.S. and courts not have the hearings to correct it either. You might want to take a trip to Wolfsburg and tour the largest automaker in the world to see what is really happening before you respond. I was there 4 months ago. The U.S. is a tiny market segment for them and we are way behind in making this a reality compared to other areas of the world that are building new infrastructure with it in mind. There are many products that we don't see and won't for a long time because of it. They are in route to producing as many I3s as all of the trucks manufactured in the US combined. It is happening now and with the tree huggers that we have directing the puppet of this country, they will soon offer tax payer funded incentives towards E.V.s and their production that people will not be able to ignore just so they can further their zero emissions agenda. This will happen NO matter what the cost just as they are doing now in the U.K.. I am not saying that I agree with it or that it makes sense to me but I can tell you that it is happening and that the motor technology and capabilities are incredible. Again, when manufactures get the weight reduced and run time lengthened these horsepower/torque monster E.V. trucks and high performance model cars will become the norm for those who can afford it in the U.S. and the technology needed is coming from the massive number of small E.V.s produced world wide.

Joe

**XstreamVking** · 04-22-2021, 09:13 AM

There's the fly in the ointment fight there.
Quote..." these horsepower/torque monster E.V. trucks and high performance model cars will become the norm for those who can afford it in the U.S." In other words, wealthy people will drive them....The rest of us. Still driving our dinosaurs.

**CUDA** · 04-22-2021, 09:36 AM

That's funny you just bought a new pickup for more money than the base Cybertruck $39,000
49,000 twin motor 4x4 big battery

Musk said he will produce a true $25,000 car

Toyota knows It can't produce the amount of battery cells it would need so they are trying to leap frog the group to solid state and not get serious with Lit

**JPEROG** · 04-22-2021, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by XstreamVking

There's the fly in the ointment fight there.
Quote..." these horsepower/torque monster E.V. trucks and high performance model cars will become the norm for those who can afford it in the U.S." In other words, wealthy people will drive them....The rest of us. Still driving our dinosaurs.

Maybe, we will have to see what the tax incentives are to the manufactures and the consumers. You pay enough in this world, you get people to do irrational things. Do you think its out of the question that the government could offer Ford enough tax incentive to eliminate gas powered trucks from their line up and run full tilt with expanding the new E.V. trucks that they are already working on for release in less then a year from now? The new Hummer luxury edition is only 10K more then its top shelf GMC counterpart and cost all come down as production numbers increase. I don't know how many will buy them but we will have a real power production problem if it happens to go that way. The other thing to consider is that the puppet can work with opec to manipulate the cost of fuel and make it a strong deterrence for consumers wanting today's technology.

The only potential buyers are people that can afford brand new car or truck today so that narrows the market a bunch right there. I am not driving anything brand new-but when a 1000 hp E.V. that will go 700 miles on a charge at 80 mph or greater average speed and is anywhere close in price to a comparable fossil burner becomes available "then I will jump".

Joe