Resin for Glassing an ABS Plastic Hull

[David - WI]

Kevlar seems to be what you need... if you use carbon you have to make it thick enough so it won't flex, I think. Kevlar is strong and flexes.

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Kevlar® 49 material is rated primarily for industrial applications including sporting goods, boats and as reinforcements in other composite structures. NOTE: This is not Kevlar® 29, which is built for ballistic applications. The density of Kevlar® 49 is 1.44 g/cm3or 0.052 lb/in3. For comparison, carbon fiber has a density of 1.76 g/cm3 or 0.064 lbs/in3 respectively. Kevlar is less dense than carbon fiber and far less stiff. Tensile modulus is ~16msi vs. 33msi for standard modulus carbon. Additionally, Kevlar® 49 sees 2.4% fiber elongation at break. Learn more about DuPont Kevlar® material by viewing the technical guide.
https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/d...ical-Guide.pdf

[mjac]

Devcon is machinable. It’s use is for repairing aluminum castings and whatnot. It’s not sandable I don’t know who suggested to use it but I wouldn’t. It’s far too hard. Maybe they have some different product now but we had a bunch 30 years or so ago. Had this other stuff called belzona molecular ceramic metal. We used the devcon to repair aluminum
and the belzona to repair cast iron. Mostly machines for tooling and whatnot

Yes, that is what all the major ABS Thermoform Kayak Manufacturers, Eddyline, Hurricane..., recommend for repairs and even have videos demonstrating its use and actually sell it out of their stores.But as you said, “It is not sandable,” I think that is why they do all repairs from the inside when they are using it.Being an MMA Adhesive though, it chemically bonds with the ABS. That is why I wanted to find an MMA Based low viscosity boat resin to put the cloth down with.

[David - WI]

If you read about them, it doesn't seem like you could possibly laminate with them... they "kick" as soon as the resin touches the activator???

[LakeFever]

Yes devcon cures quick. It’s very similar to jb weld just thicker consistency. At least the stuff I used was. The metal stuff was very thick and chunky. Cured harder than hell though

[David - WI]

MMA adhesive

[mjac]

If you read about them, it doesn't seem like you could possibly laminate with them... they "kick" as soon as the resin touches the activator???

You are 100% right. You can not laminate with Devcon type Methyl Methacrylate adhesives. They are too thick, about 50,000 cps I think, and they set up too fast. They use it on small streams repairs where you can apply it quick and get out of its way. Eddyline Kayaks has a video on their website using Devcon to make a repair on one of their Kayaks.

[mjac]

Kevlar seems to be what you need... if you use carbon you have to make it thick enough so it won't flex, I think. Kevlar is strong and flexes.

----- ---------------------------------------- ---------------------

Kevlar® 49 material is rated primarily for industrial applications including sporting goods, boats and as reinforcements in other composite structures. NOTE: This is not Kevlar® 29, which is built for ballistic applications. The density of Kevlar® 49 is 1.44 g/cm3or 0.052 lb/in3. For comparison, carbon fiber has a density of 1.76 g/cm3 or 0.064 lbs/in3 respectively. Kevlar is less dense than carbon fiber and far less stiff. Tensile modulus is ~16msi vs. 33msi for standard modulus carbon. Additionally, Kevlar® 49 sees 2.4% fiber elongation at break. Learn more about DuPont Kevlar® material by viewing the technical guide.
https://www.rockwestcomposites.com/d...ical-Guide.pdf

I do not know. I have to find out more about it. That is why I asked Rock West Composite’s Engineering Department. I believed that a Dual Twill (Fibers running in two directions 90 degrees of each other) Kevlar/ Carbon Fiber Hybrid Fabric would be the best with the Carbon Fiber providing some rigidity and the Kevlar providing some flex and impact resistance. But maybe a straight Kevlar Fabric in some particular weave and weight might be best in two layers perhaps run in different directions because it would provide more flex. Which is important, because you are always running into things.

[mjac]

Yes devcon cures quick. It’s very similar to jb weld just thicker consistency. At least the stuff I used was. The metal stuff was very thick and chunky. Cured harder than hell though

Devcon is great for SMALL repairs on ABS Thermoformed Kayaks and other Boats. But it and its Applicators are expensive as h... In my case the two repairs would be very expensive and still leave me with the rest of the bottom of the boat very weak. (it is an older boat and even more brittle) So I thought I would experiment and try and reinforce the whole bottom and patch the inside with the right cloth and resin. Time to have some fun. Besides that, these colored Composite Fabrics when applied with a clear drying resin is supposed to look fantastic.

[mjac]

MMA adhesive

That is their abbreviation for Methyl Methacrylate Adhesives. Usually it is applied to the thick,putty like adhesives like Devcon and the other stuff they use to glue on boat stingers and to glue two boat halves together, about 50,000 cps. The stuff I am looking for is low viscosity resin (about 1000 cps) to saturate boat building cloth and chemically bond with the ABS.

[LakeFever]

Interesting. So all you need is the resin from devcon so you can mix your own ratio and use that to lay up the cloth. Might be worth contacting chemical storage outfits or a commercial plastic tank manufacturer. Maybe they would have some to sell or point you to the right supplier.

[mjac]

Interesting. So all you need is the resin from devcon so you can mix your own ratio and use that to lay up the cloth. Might be worth contacting chemical storage outfits or a commercial plastic tank manufacturer. Maybe they would have some to sell or point you to the right supplier.

I contacted Devcon and ITW that manufactures Devcon and they do not make a low viscosity Methyl Methacrylate (MMA) Resin, only the thick adhesive like Devcon. After this guy recommended a MMA based resin to stick to the ABS plastic I have contacted over 30 Marine Suppliers, Distributors and Manufacturers and nobody has even heard of it. That is why I came on here because there seemed to be some people with a lot of experience with fiberglass for marine use, not industrial use. Then I contacted a company called Entec which had a lot of MMA adhesive products listed on their website and they were an industrial supplier of MMA adhesives too, but their regional sales rep in my area happened to personally know two people he worked with in the chemical adhesive field and after almost resigning to the fact I might not find an MMA resin they provided me with a few leads that at least LOOK pretty good. I do not know. I will have to see. But it has been interesting and I learned a lot about a few things, including in this thread. If I can find it, after talking to these Chemical guys, the MMA resin would be the way to go to bond with the ABS plastic though.

[David - WI]

You missed my point. If you read about the MMA adhesives; they "kick" as soon as they contact the activator. How would you wet out all the fabric and lay it in place and then get activator onto the back side of the fabric?

[mjac]

You missed my point. If you read about the MMA adhesives; they "kick" as soon as they contact the activator. How would you wet out all the fabric and lay it in place and then get activator onto the back side of the fabric?

When you say “MMA Adhesives” I assume you are talking about the thick, over 50,000 cps, putty like adhesives that they use to fasten stringers to boats and join two boat halves together. That is how they refer to them. I am looking for a low viscosity, around 1000 cps, 2 part MMA Resin used to saturate boat building cloth. I do not know it’s properties, pot life or set up time yet. I can not even find it or find anyone who even knows about it, until now. I have a couple of leads and maybe I can find out a little more about it. When I posted this I thought I might not be able to find it or get it in reasonable quantities so I was looking for the best possible alternative for adhering to ABS Plastic from people with experience with fiberglass. So we have to see how these leads pan out.

[XstreamVking]

One trick to make resin stick to plastics and aluminum is to apply a thin wet coat of resin to the surface and then sand with 80 grit wet or dry paper. Let this kick and laminate as soon as it's gelled. The little fingers from the substrate get encased into the resin and provide a base for further layering.

[mjac]

One trick to make resin stick to plastics and aluminum is to apply a thin wet coat of resin to the surface and then sand with 80 grit wet or dry paper. Let this kick and laminate as soon as it's gelled. The little fingers from the substrate get encased into the resin and provide a base for further layering.

This might come in handy, especially if I can not find a Low Viscosity Methyl Methacrylate (MMA) Based Resin and have to try the best Epoxy I can find. That is why I wanted to try and find an MMA based resin because it forms a tremendous chemical bond with ABS Plastic and has great resiliency and impact resistance. Got a couple of leads just recently after posting, but do not know if they will pan out. I want to give it the best shot, no compromises.