How do you feel when a seller won't give you the HID, trailer VIN, or motor serial ?

**TraceF3** · 01-23-2021, 03:22 PM

I haven't asked him any questions. Except for the HID, trailer VIN, and motor serial number.

I've been doing this long enough to be leery of a 1 year old loose motor already sold to the second owner.

**Chaz** · 01-23-2021, 03:32 PM

Not sure what a "one year old loose motor" is, but even if it's been sold 12 times (that would be once a month) it's still a one year old motor with 8 years of wty left.

If a Kardashian sister was one of them .. would it be worth an extra $10,000 to one of her fans ???

**TraceF3** · 01-23-2021, 03:39 PM

Yep and two owners or twelve I still want to know the warranty history of the one year old motor the original owner got rid of. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

Now before you rant back at me that maybe somebody wanted more HP or whatever... I realize this. But it could also be a problem motor.

Let me ask you this? Do you know the history of the motor? Or the seller?

**flabum1017** · 01-23-2021, 04:11 PM

Personally, I wouldn't be too concerned about the engine's history. If the motor under-performs or blew up on you the second day you had it, it's under warranty, just take it to a dealer and they will fix it like new for you..... You've got 8 years of warranty so long as the dealers stay open that long.

**Chaz** · 01-23-2021, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by TraceF3

Yep and two owners or twelve I still want to know the warranty history of the one year old motor the original owner got rid of. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

Now before you rant back at me that maybe somebody wanted more HP or whatever... I realize this. But it could also be a problem motor.

Let me ask you this? Do you know the history of the motor? Or the seller?

Your a hypocrite, you want motor history on one hand, yet have failed to add year and HIN number of your Checkmate .. like I have asked for multiple times.
Easy concept to grasp .. you wan others to do, which you won't do yourself ..

Chaz = thinkin, hurry up and get that porkchop runnin .. I gotz $20,000 burnin a hole in my pocket ..

**TraceF3** · 01-24-2021, 08:22 AM

OK so I'm a hypocrite

I want to go back and correct something I posted that was incorrect:

I asked the seller more than HID, trailer VIN, and motor serial.

I asked him for the in-service date on the motor and where the boat was located because I can't make out the registration number in the pics or video and the trailer has a NY tag on it. Which BTW raises another question- are the titles in his name or still in the previous owner's name?

In my opinion these are things important to making my purchase decision. If you disagree so be it. I'm OK with that.

It IS a thread asking for opinions after all...

**Chaz** · 01-24-2021, 09:49 AM

Well, that was HONEST ..

He did say :

Just an update: Engine has 8 year warranty, in service 2019. Clear title on boat and trailer.

I have not read the rules of the auction site, but your bid is not bonded to where if you backed out after winning you lose 10% of the bid. So at this point, your not out anything.

I agree that "the winner" has every right to see proof of motor history, hull ID and trailer info. But at this point, you haven't won.

But lets say you do win. You get the info you desire and don't like the results. Whats the worse that can happen, you can't bid at that auction again .. still out nothing.

If you really wanted it, you could have drove down and looked at it yesterday and been back home in time to have a early dinner ... but then you wouldn't be able to still complain about it today ..

**TraceF3** · 01-24-2021, 10:05 AM

I believe the update re in-service date of 2019 is recent and wasn't there when I started inquiring on 1/16. It wasn't updated in that thread until 1/21. Just sayin....

I'm not trying to jerk him around or be a smart ass Chaz. I'm a interested party asking reasonable questions.

If I won the auction and THEN found out the motor had issues or the title was in somebody else's name who lives in NY, and backed out of the deal, I'm sure someone would paint me as the bad guy then too for not doing my homework upfront.

**Chaz** · 01-24-2021, 10:43 PM

I know you want to do some research before you leap , or leap any farther.

Different world today than the one we grew up in. Back then there was no internet , today as stated , there are people who can claim they really own the boat or motor with just enough information to make it look real. The same way as you said .. they can make you out to be the bad guy for pulling out of a sale. NWO ...

In this case, I don't think you have anything like that to worry about. Honestly, I'm suprized that Wavey hasn't contacted you and put your mind at ease. Maybe it's in the rules of his auction site ..

If it was me, I'd still want to look at it in person before I put a nickel down on it. Not that there would be anything wrong .. I just like to see what I'm buying. It is used, and more than likely had a few minor dings and scratch's from normal use. Stuff you can't see from your easy chair .. I'd have to think anyone who buys like that .. can expect to be shocked when they finally see what the bought.

I bought a set of honing stones on E-bay . Picture and description were correct.
They sent me a small bore hone (kind-a chincy lookin). I contacted the seller and E-Bay . E-bay said they have 12 days to make good on it. I said I wanted to stones, not my money back. The guy said he no longer carried the stones. He gave me my money back and said it wasn't worth sending a call tag out to get the hone. Told me to keep it ... With such high volume, I can't imagine the crap they go thru on a daily basis ..

**WavetoWave** · 01-26-2021, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by TraceF3

I believe the update re in-service date of 2019 is recent and wasn't there when I started inquiring on 1/16. It wasn't updated in that thread until 1/21. Just sayin....

I'm not trying to jerk him around or be a smart ass Chaz. I'm a interested party asking reasonable questions.

If I won the auction and THEN found out the motor had issues or the title was in somebody else's name who lives in NY, and backed out of the deal, I'm sure someone would paint me as the bad guy then too for not doing my homework upfront.

Hey Trace, thanks for the inquiry. You did ask for the VINs for the trailer and engine, but as others have said, the info is basically useless and don't really want to give it to anyone other than the buyer. The engine was purchased new, you never asked that but it was clear in the ad and the build link. Likewise with the trailer. I updated the listing as you noted with the in service date and the confirmation of warranty. And the engine report is very detailed which I said I would provide. With free listings like classifieds, craigslist, and normal ads, yes, there is more room for concern as there is no skin in the game for either party and scamming is open season.

The idea of the auction is to have transparent listings, where the seller has skin in the game, it's $95 to list and all paperwork has to be given to the buyer before closing. The buyer pays a small commission as well, so they also have skin in the game. We don't list boats that don't have clean titles for boat and trailer, always clearly stated.

Appreciate the feedback everyone. We are trying to make the boat buying / selling experience more transparent and better overall.

**WavetoWave** · 01-26-2021, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by TraceF3

OK so I'm a hypocrite

I want to go back and correct something I posted that was incorrect:

I asked the seller more than HID, trailer VIN, and motor serial.

I asked him for the in-service date on the motor and where the boat was located because I can't make out the registration number in the pics or video and the trailer has a NY tag on it. Which BTW raises another question- are the titles in his name or still in the previous owner's name?

In my opinion these are things important to making my purchase decision. If you disagree so be it. I'm OK with that.

It IS a thread asking for opinions after all...

Those are all in the ad. There is no previous owner everything was brand new, in 2018.

**Chaz** · 01-26-2021, 12:33 PM

Wavey , I was just going to ask you .. on your thread, what it would take to get the info that has been requested.
If I asked, I would expect to not get any info. But someone who put's in a bid of $20,000 should have privy to wty info . (even if it's no where close to the reserve)
Not having access, could and we can see by Trace's posts, limit bidders willingness to bid any higher.

By stating :

And the engine report is very detailed which I said I would provide.

Makes it look like the engine has had issues . And if so , a potential buyer does have the rite to see that.

As far as hull titles and trailer MSO's , you said :

We don't list boats that don't have clean titles for boat and trailer, always clearly stated.

Which is part of the service you provide, but also holds you liable . If there have been insurance claims or wty. work done on the hull /trailer , then that info should be posted up front as well .

I'm sure that if you bought a item like a boat off of a web site .. and in the 11th hour you found out "it had minor surface issues on the starboard side" when in reality it bounced off of a bridge imbuement .. you'd feel a bit used up.

I know it would be a lot of work answering every question from every bidder, but that is what you are being paid for in a round about way.

Perhaps responding to those that are bidding at 75% of the reserve , would be less work (weeding out bad guys) and it would let a bidder know if he is close to the reserve without actually coming out and saying so .

Don't know the answer , but if your customers don't feel secure .. they will look somewhere else.

**WavetoWave** · 01-26-2021, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Chaz

Wavey , I was just going to ask you .. on your thread, what it would take to get the info that has been requested.
If I asked, I would expect to not get any info. But someone who put's in a bid of $20,000 should have privy to wty info . (even if it's no where close to the reserve)
Not having access, could and we can see by Trace's posts, limit bidders willingness to bid any higher.

By stating :

[/COLOR]Makes it look like the engine has had issues . And if so , a potential buyer does have the rite to see that.

As far as hull titles and trailer MSO's , you said :

Which is part of the service you provide, but also holds you liable . If there have been insurance claims or wty. work done on the hull /trailer , then that info should be posted up front as well .

I'm sure that if you bought a item like a boat off of a web site .. and in the 11th hour you found out "it had minor surface issues on the starboard side" when in reality it bounced off of a bridge imbuement .. you'd feel a bit used up.

I know it would be a lot of work answering every question from every bidder, but that is what you are being paid for in a round about way.

Perhaps responding to those that are bidding at 75% of the reserve , would be less work (weeding out bad guys) and it would let a bidder know if he is close to the reserve without actually coming out and saying so .

Don't know the answer , but if your customers don't feel secure .. they will look somewhere else.

Thanks for the feedback.
1. Engine reports are common on new engines to document hours, codes etc. It doesn't make it seem like it has issues at all, the opposite actually.

2. Listing boats where the seller declares they have clear title of the boat and trailer doesn't make us liable at all. They just send the buyer copies of all documents before the close.

3. "bought a boat off website" yes, this is why we try to have more details, more pictures, videos etc. Any used boat or car for that matter could've had a panel fixed that is being hidden or undetectable, but we do ask for disclosure and try. There is no way to prevent someone from lying about it, but all boats can be inspected before money changes hand, it's encouraged, we actually encourage people to get a survey done and mechanical report.

"if there have been insurance claims or work done on hull trailer" Yes, we make every attempt to do that. As an example, this boat is publicly rebuilt from the ground up, on video, so it's all there to see. This was well documented and disclosed. All of the blemishes were photographed and disclosed in the writeup.

All good feedback, but when you say it was bought new in 2018, and you have all the paperwork, engine report etc and someone is questioning it, no matter how much evidence you provide, there isn't much more you can do.

**TraceF3** · 01-26-2021, 05:06 PM

You having clear title and you having clear title (in your name) are two completely different things. I don't need to go in to all the problems that have and could happen again when a seller sells a car, truck, boat, trailer, etc with a title that was signed a year ago and maybe by the owner, maybe not. I recently passed on a hull that had a clear title... the son was going to sign dad's name because he was deceased. So who really owns the dead guy's boat? It could have been willed to anyone, literally anyone. The son could have no claim to the boat or right to sell it. And if there's NO will the boat technically has to go through probate. Don't ask me how I know. Did you transfer the hull into your name or hold the title open to save the tax and registration fees? Additionally, unless you have a dealer's license FL law says you can only sell 1 boat per year. I've been warned by the state in letter on this so now it's one per year only.

Also I disagree that the HID, trailer VIN, and motor serial are "useless" as you say. I could have used it to get insurance quote and hull value. I could also get the warranty claim information if any exists. I do not recall anywhere in your ad where it said you bought the motor new. I thought you were the second owner. Reason is you didn't even know if it went in to service in 2018 or 2019 initially. You had to "check on that". Who would forget that? And the difference between January 2019 and December 2019 is a full year of warranty. That year will have value down the road. But you never answered that either.

What I asked you is what I learned over the years to ask to be sure I have my butt covered as well as possible. And I know there is still the buyer beware warning going off in my head because buyers have little to no recourse in FL if the vehicle or vessel is misrepresented.

Finally, you could have at any time responded to my PM and said something... anything. I know you read it because I saw you on-line with me the day after I posted unless someone else logs in on your account.

I hope you get what you're asking for what appears to be a nice package. But some buyers are going to need a little more 411 to be satisfied than you seem willing to give.

Regards

Trace

**WavetoWave** · 01-26-2021, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by TraceF3

You having clear title and you having clear title (in your name) are two completely different things. I don't need to go in to all the problems that have and could happen again when a seller sells a car, truck, boat, trailer, etc with a title that was signed a year ago and maybe by the owner, maybe not. I recently passed on a hull that had a clear title... the son was going to sign dad's name because he was deceased. So who really owns the dead guy's boat? It could have been willed to anyone, literally anyone. The son could have no claim to the boat or right to sell it. And if there's NO will the boat technically has to go through probate. Don't ask me how I know. Did you transfer the hull into your name or hold the title open to save the tax and registration fees? Additionally, unless you have a dealer's license FL law says you can only sell 1 boat per year. I've been warned by the state in letter on this so now it's one per year only.

Also I disagree that the HID, trailer VIN, and motor serial are "useless" as you say. I could have used it to get insurance quote and hull value. I could also get the warranty claim information if any exists. I do not recall anywhere in your ad where it said you bought the motor new. I thought you were the second owner. Reason is you didn't even know if it went in to service in 2018 or 2019 initially. You had to "check on that". Who would forget that? And the difference between January 2019 and December 2019 is a full year of warranty. That year will have value down the road. But you never answered that either.

What I asked you is what I learned over the years to ask to be sure I have my butt covered as well as possible. And I know there is still the buyer beware warning going off in my head because buyers have little to no recourse in FL if the vehicle or vessel is misrepresented.

Finally, you could have at any time responded to my PM and said something... anything. I know you read it because I saw you on-line with me the day after I posted unless someone else logs in on your account.

I hope you get what you're asking for what appears to be a nice package. But some buyers are going to need a little more 411 to be satisfied than you seem willing to give.

Regards

Trace

Thanks.

It's crystal clear. I have the title for the boat in my name.
I had to check on the date of in service because the engine was bought new in 2018, but warranty started August 2019, double checked to be certain.
All the questions were answered in the ad. I didn't reply to the VIN question because it's not useful, you can get insurance quotes without it.

The benefit of an auction is there is way less tire kicking. There is a comment section in the auction to which is a great way to ask questions openly so everyone can see the answer.