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01-16-2021, 08:14 PM #16
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01-17-2021, 10:52 AM #17
So if a composite core is used, it would be prudent to beef up the hull with some ribs. Im still not for sure on the composite core but my main goal with this Viking I have is for it to last as long as possible while still being able to take some waves without fear if caught out in the rough. That and the fact that I keep seeing more and more wake board boats sending off those perfectly clear sharp edge waves I cant always see that are huge and I hit and well... I want to at least have the boat im in not be the danger there. Thanks OP, perfectly timed thread we need more boat talk round these parts
Hydrostream dreamin
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01-17-2021, 11:35 AM #186000 RPM
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You and the OP are on the right track here looking at the best way to ensure these older boats are strong and safe in modern applications. Think about the risk factors here (Hydrostreams especially, but this also applies to other boats of similar age and construction):
- 30-40+ year old boat - possible/probable soft core ? Early delamination ? Soft/rotten transom and stringers ? Some tabbing starting to pull off ?
- Questionable quality control on the original layup (Streams are infamous for this)
- Modern outboards: more power and more torque, more weight
- Overall faster speeds usually
- In many cases rougher water: wakeboard boats as you mentioned (I have exactly the same issue around here - they are everywhere)
Add those together and you definitely need to put some thought into the restoration. There's multiple good build threads on here and some very knowledgeable people to provide assistance (including RBT above - listen to what he is saying about the balsa - good stuff if installed and later rigged correctly). You can have an excellent boat with either a balsa or composite core. Keep in mind the core material selection is only a piece of the puzzle. The resin you choose, the way the new core is bonded to the hull, the way the hull is supported during the re-core, and the inner skin layup are all just as important considerations as the material itself.
Matt
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RBT, Laseraddict liked this post
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01-17-2021, 01:19 PM #19
Indeed to all that. I’ve read every resto thread I can find here and everywhere else. Tnels thread to follow is my favorite though he posted so much helpful content and started green as I am and ended up pro level I was so impressed by that resto journey. Im a ways from starting yet but the hull is completely stripped bare, cap removed, transom gone. It’s a bare shell ready when I am. I had a deal struck twice now to build it but both times life got in the way and the build deal stalled so until I buy product I’m trying to learn more. I see the tidbits dropped here and there and for racing? Balsa for sure. For consumer/value/long haul the composites are carrying my focus so far. It’s really down to gel coat concerns where I’m flip flopping. I like gel and if I use epoxy gel becomes challenging. One resto guy I met with is pushing me hard to use paint. He claims it’s better on all fronts aside from long term water exposure but I don’t plan on leaving this one wet for longer than a day or three at a time and even then boat house at night so I might do paint which I can control the outcome a lot tighter as I have paint experience. Never sprayed gel so there’s that
Hydrostream dreamin
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tnelsmn thanked for this post
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01-17-2021, 09:04 PM #20
Thank you for the kind words, Lake!
I'll add my .02, from a complete amateur perspective. Discussions like these are what makes this place so great and are a good way to learn for us newbies.
I had the same questions when starting my build. I chose balsa for the following reasons;
- These things were built like absolute horse s**t from the factory. Imagine what got looked over pushing out 5 boats a day. With that said, they still lasted 15-20 years.
- Balsa is by far the cheapest core material to buy. If you miss a measurement and cut something wrong, you're only out $30 for a 2x4' sheet.
- Balsa is also very easy to work with. I suppose the foam would be too, but I can't speak from experience.
- According to the data available online, it is the strongest in every measurement.
- Seal the living daylights out of it and moisture can't get to it for it to rot. I made sure there was plenty of resin in my layups over the core. Then covered everything under the floor with a layer of gelcoat on top of that. From the factory many boats had dry layups over the core. Or even exposed core in some spots.
I feel like I'm rambling at this point so I'll stop there. Keep in mind, I'm no expert, I've rebuilt one boat. Just sharing my thoughts.'78 Hydrostream Viking/'98 225 ProMax
Restoration: https://www.screamandfly.com/showthr...Viking-rebuild
Pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152974...57708863869223
Videos: https://www.youtube.com/tnels
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Laseraddict liked this post
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01-18-2021, 06:38 AM #21
I can’t argue with any of that and no one could say a well built balsa core resto is anything less than awesome. I suppose the only way we will ever know which route is best is for some of us to use composite and report back in 30-50 years or so
ive always been a material junky, always looking for the best products I can get. My thinking is if I’m gonna spend the time to build something I don’t want to have product or material failures somewhere down the line because I should have used something better. That said I don’t think you can go wrong if you build it right the boat will be great regardless of process. I have a complete balsa core already that came with the hull. I bought the package from a guy who stripped all the core and whatnot out and got as far as dry fitting the core and he stopped there. It’s hard to find the time to see a project like this through which is why I have yet to start. I want to ensure I can see it throughHydrostream dreamin
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01-24-2021, 12:13 PM #22Member
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Hi everyone,
Thank you for all the replies, sorry for the late response i've been bogged down with year end financials and presentations.
The builder is tempest boats, they make mostly bowriders but the owners son does recore hydrostreams at the factory as well from time to time. I tried for 3 months to get ahold of John Spaeth or his son to no avail and i want to be rolling this year once the season starts so this was the second best option. I have confidence in them as they have done them before and previous customer's were very happy as well as my grandfather had a tempest boat from the 70's that was sold 5 years ago in great shape still and by the cottage here there are a few of them plus one that has sat for 5 years uncovered in the water all summer every summer overpowered with no cracks on the transom which the floor is still solid on as i have talked to the guy and been in it when he was having some problems with his 150. I am on pigeon lake by Omemee.
I have decided to go composite as that is what the manufacturer works with they have not used balsa for a considerable amount of time, while there i will discuss with him a little thicker layup as well as stringers like FMP mentioned for the exact reason a few mentioned here which is between the offshore boats, cruisers and wake board boats it gets very wavy out there as on weekends there are hundreds of boats out just at the sandbars let alone those cruising around.
I now have a choice again on power as the proXS i bought from the builder is not quite what im looking for as it has the fleetmaster lower and was a 225 proXS originally with a 250 powerhead but the 250 ECU was no good and has a 225 ECU still. It will cost a bit more to upgrade to one of the others but i feel will be worth it. My options are:
1-cheapest-2002 300 promax with 0 hours just rebuilt with a balanced rotating assembly, WSM pistons and the ports "cleaned up" rev-limiter at 6500
2-Most powerful-2008 Yamaha 300 with 0 hours rebuilt for himself with carbon reeds, WSM platinum pistons, injectors flushed/flowed, new filters, updated series 2 oil pump, factory coned VZ gearcase, all ports etc had the rough castings cleaned up and a hydrotech phase 2 kit. Not sure if this is to heavy for the stream though!
3-2005 mercury gold block 250XS with the 6300 rev limiter- This will come with a gen 2 torquemaster with that splash guard and can be coned or unconed and is being rebuilt now and is getting a sleeve on cylinder 2, 6 new STD size WSM pistons rings, bearings etc. (THIS IS THE ONE I AM THINKING WILL COMPLIMENT THE STREAM THE MOST since it is a performance motor while having some decent gas mileage when cruising. It also seems like most ppl that have them want to rebuild them until they blow so bad they can't be and it will have the updated torguemaster the lower HP newer ones have)
4-2013 250 Pro XS that has a bad cylinder 6 and will either be rebuilt with a sleeve or oversized piston not sure as it has not been opened yet but will have a gen 2 torquemaster as well.
Thanks again for all the replies i really appreciate all the help. I will upload pictures as different stages are completed and post numbers once complete and out tearin' up some water.Last edited by cameronj; 01-24-2021 at 12:18 PM.
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01-25-2021, 09:27 AM #23Team Member
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I have reconsidered. Put me down for balsa. I trust the composite in my SS2000, but apparently it's quite easy to get into trouble with the synthetics, poor bonding to the glass, crumbling, heat aging, water: Structural Issues : Core Materials (yachtsurvey.com)
2002 Promax 300, about 480 lb, will burn more gas than I can imagine. Simplest motor which should help reliability. My 225 Promax liked it's fuel
2008 Yamaha 300 HPDI, 543 lb, 539 lb if it's a VMax. Direct injected, should be OK on fuel
The 250XSs should be about 505 lb. If it were me, I'd want the injectors cleaned and a new compressor. 250 HP on a Vegas will go into the 90's so the torquemaster will need a cone.
All your motor options are rebuilt. Go with the best reputation builder?
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LakeFever thanked for this post
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01-25-2021, 01:17 PM #24
The light bulb just clicked. Shrinkage!!!!
in a previous life I had a body shop and we painted a lot of cars and bikes and whatnot when you buy materials the costs are directly related to longevity specifically tied to shrinking and sun resistance. I learned that any non pro grade enamels or lacquers are very prone to shrinking which over time causes the paint to lose grip to the substrate which was typically primer which was usually lacquer based. Once I got onto the epoxy urethane primers and clear coats shrink related paint failures disappeared. After reading that article above I’m thinking shrinking inside the layup is a big consideration to have during a restoration. I’m also thinking I don’t know much at all about the composite foam cores and whatnot so for my build I’m starting to lean towards balsa and epoxy. Quality epoxy does not shrink much if at all. I will look further into this
great threadHydrostream dreamin
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02-23-2021, 03:36 PM #25Member
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I dropped off the boat and got to see the place i was not aware they made the charger boats and have and are making the charger boats again, was looking at a nice Charger STV being done.
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