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01-01-2021, 01:08 PM #31
I have been around several variations of these over the years. Jet, V-Drive and Outboard. IMO the Scorpion is the most ill handling wettest riding air entrapment platform there is. The outbound being the worst. I have heard over the years Eliminator destroyed the molds for these. I don’t know if that’s true. That said I think Baker3 has the best advice regarding the hull being able to compress and pack enough air to carry the bow. In stock form there is not enough compression, adding boards to the top of the tunnels will increase compression thus adding lift. I disagree that it is tough to get a pleasure boat to run 80+ with a full interior. Maybe in the quarter mile but a lake boat can easily hit 80+. A full interior Daytona 21 will go 90+ with a bone stock 260. I don’t mean to come in here and bag on someone else’s ride but I think this is going to be a tough one to get right and safe. I wish you luck in your endeavor. Be careful, wear a good life jacket and kill switch.
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01-01-2021, 02:51 PM #32
I worked on that boat for a week, when it would air out it would go about a hundred yards and try to kill me.
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01-01-2021, 03:03 PM #331980 Cougar 19 tunnel,90 2.4L Bridgeport EFI in middle of restoration.
1988 BAJA Sunsport 186, 96 225 Pro Max
79 12' Auminum, 95 Merc 9.9
RIP Stu
"So many idiots, so few bullets"
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01-01-2021, 03:30 PM #34Member
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First off. Happy New Year. Thanks for all the advice and more is welcome. I'm going to check some things out on the boat. Going to move the engine back and up. I have a total weight boat, motor and trailer. I'm going to lift the boat off the trailer and weigh the trailer this week so I see what the boats exact weight is. Going to see if I can have someone look at the bottom of the boat while the trailer away.
I believe it is in the hull design, weight, wet or something. Might just have to live with a 70 mph boat.
Any input on trying something like a 24 pitch, 5 blade prop? My thought was more rpm and more transom lift.
Better idea????? Find a STV Euro without power.
Thanks again
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01-01-2021, 03:43 PM #35Member
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It ran about 70 mph all stock original separate oil tank, just gas and go. Good friends said it would run in the 90s with a Mercury and look 100% better. It does look better, but $15,000.00 later still runs 70 mph. If you could pm your phone number to me I would like to ask you a couple of questions. Thanks Ed
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01-01-2021, 03:53 PM #36
Weight is one thing but where it is distributed in the boat is another. Tunnel boats have 2 lifts, hydrodynamic and aerodynamic. Sounds like this boat iz not happy when the aerodynamic lift starts happening and gets unstable. Chances are if Capt couldn't get it to run fast no one will, not his first rodeo.
Dave1980 Cougar 19 tunnel,90 2.4L Bridgeport EFI in middle of restoration.
1988 BAJA Sunsport 186, 96 225 Pro Max
79 12' Auminum, 95 Merc 9.9
RIP Stu
"So many idiots, so few bullets"
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01-01-2021, 05:33 PM #37
The reason I asked why is if your boat carried it self better with the OMC it might be a balance issue. I would think Eliminator if they sold that boat turn key would have the correct setback for which ever motor desired.
Don't know OMC's but I'm assuming they are a little heavier than a 2.5 Merc. Don't take this personal but that Lazy Boy front seat cant be helping with weight towards the front. Most faster boats but not all tend to run fiberglass shell seats.
Can you walk on your deck?
If you are going to lift your boat off the trailer to weight it, take a board or PVC pipe and slide it between the hull and trailer to check your CG. Racer had me do this with my 18.5 Baker Sprint boat and told me my CG should be around 5 1/2' measured from the transom forward. Have not done it with my 20 Rampage but I'm guessing it would be around 6'. You'll need to add some fuel maybe a 1/3 and sit in the boat. With a couple buddies you can figure out what needs to be moved. It's not hard and will tell you a lot about your setup. As you probably know porposing kills RPM's. Cleavers suck on boats that need help lifting. You said you had a bunch of props. A lot of fast bass boats running around with bass boat designed props. Check your CG, probably going to move your engine back and not necessarily up and maybe replace your front seat temporally and find a bow lifting prop. Bravos Tempest Trophy. Smooth water is hard to test in when you have balance issues.
Not a expert and I'm always learning. Keith 714 745-7078Last edited by Baker343; 01-01-2021 at 05:39 PM.
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01-02-2021, 03:20 AM #38Screaming And Flying!
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Sam Baker
8000 RPM
Join DateApr 2001LocationAntioch, ILPosts3,377Thanks (Given)0Thanks (Received)0Likes (Given)0Likes (Received)13Mentioned0 Post(s)Tagged0 Thread(s)
Oh, and Barney's right. The boat was based on the Eliminator Scorpion when my dad worked at Eliminator in Shawano, WI. That boat was more designed for jet power and as such didn't have much pinch in the tunnel. So, when he redesigned it and built the new deck, he moved the dash back about 8" in order to get rid of the mid range porpoise. However, the bottom still needs more pinch (like most tunnels do) in order to get rid of the mid range porpoise. So, to get around that, you have to fly them a little high up to about 70 or so, then you tap the trim down, mash the throttle and run 'em. They run very flat at wide open. A lot of people fly them too high at wide open, but you don't have to.
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01-02-2021, 08:21 AM #39Member
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Sam thank you for that insight. I wounder if I have the early design? I'm thinking it is a big job to put more pitch in a boat. Who is Barney?
Another lesson I learned last night........I live just outside Columbus Ohio. Don't bet against the Buckeye's.
Thanks Ed
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01-02-2021, 08:32 AM #405000 RPM
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Perhaps Jim Russell at Aeromarine Design could offer some thoughts, I have asked him several questions on my STV over the years and he is spot on with his responses... excellent resource.
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01-02-2021, 09:13 AM #41Screaming And Flying!
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[QUOTE=fasteddies69;3257566]Sam thank you for that insight. I wounder if I have the early design? I'm thinking it is a big job to put more pitch in a boat. Who is Barney?
Another lesson I learned last night........I live just outside Columbus Ohio. Don't bet against the Buckeye's.
Thanks Ed[/QUOTE
I put that up, that post is 20 years old. Sam was speaking of a rapid craft riot boat which was based off the scorpion. Your boat doesn’t know if it’s a plane or a boat. The transition means the boat is trying to fly. The boat will be a little tricky with zero wind and zero chop. I owned a Rapid Craft Riot for many years. In the beginning I had many problems the owner of rapid craft happen to be in my area and gave me some driving lessons after that it was a piece of cake to drive. The boat liked a chopper style prop or a lightning ET.
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01-02-2021, 06:56 PM #42
Have read this thread with interest. My best friend had a 20 Eliminator Scorpion with a Johnson V8. I had a 21 Daytona Eliminator with a 200 Mercury. He loved the lines of the Scorpion, but the boat just never seemed to produce enough lift to carry the bow even with the V8 Johnson. The hull ran very flat and neutral. Wasnt very responsive to trim either.
The Scorpion needed all the help it could get to carry the bow. The Chopper style wheels with high rake worked the best on the boat. Motor was on a fixed bracket and probably needed to go higher. Was running a Bobs low water pickup on the OMC gearcase. His boat never really hopped maybe the weight of the Johnson wouldnt even let it get up in the air enough....dont know. That was back before GPS, speedo said the boat ran 75 mph so it probably was running 70. He got tired of messing with it and traded it for a 21 Daytona with twin 2.4 Bridgeports.
Good Luck....hope with the wealth of knowledge on this board, you can get the boat running how you want it.
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01-02-2021, 07:20 PM #43Member
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Thank you for the information. I'm trying to get all the good input so I can make some intelligent decision on what to do. I like the boat and hard headed. With all the help from the guys on Scream n Fly I will figure it out. Might have the first $50,000.00 Scorpion too.
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01-06-2021, 07:11 PM #44Member
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Some new information. Boat weight is 1900 lbs. weighed it today without me a 200 lb driver. Boat weight says it is 1300 lbs dry, add fuel, battier, pumps, jack plate and engine it looks about right.
Center of gravity with 11" set back is at 4'. Put the 16" set back plates on it and only moved center of gravity back 6" to 3'6". Engine was and is set so jack plate will move from 2" below the bottom of the boat to 2" above the bottom of the boat. the bottom of the boat looks flat had a 6' level and shows no hook at the back of the boat ( if I'm saying it right.)
It is hanging in the air if there is anything else I might look at?
Thanks Ed
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01-06-2021, 08:12 PM #45
Static CG is at rest, Dynamic CG is more important, changes with speed, engine height, air and hydrodynamic drag, and many other factors. You need to get a copy of Jim Russell's Tunnel Boat Design Program, or at least talk witb Jim he may have helped someone else in the past with your hull.
Dave1980 Cougar 19 tunnel,90 2.4L Bridgeport EFI in middle of restoration.
1988 BAJA Sunsport 186, 96 225 Pro Max
79 12' Auminum, 95 Merc 9.9
RIP Stu
"So many idiots, so few bullets"
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specboatops, Jimboat liked this post
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