Have You Checked Your High Speed Jets

[Dave S]

Light years ahead of youall.... KG7...Mk 20......Adjustable jets........HeeHee

[flabum1017]

I let it soak in. If I had only seen this once I might agree with Chaz. Have you ever checked your jets? Look at the structure of Gasoline they put things in it trying to stop corrosion. Things I have seen in carbs Rust Rubber Salt Sand Plastic Silicone Bug Parts Black Goop other wise known as old oil White Rust Water fresh and Salt most of though a 10 micron Filter. Alcohol in sum forms like ETHANOL and METHANOL are very corrosive. Look at what they put in gas Alkyl in different forms That is an acid used to keep fuel injectors valves and pistons clean of deposits. I have a Friend who makes lots of money cleaning trash out Fuel injectors off outboard motors. Yes I have had things miss mark Like Piston Rings Bearing and Just Part in General. I have seen a lot in the last 40 plus years of doing this. Every Thing Wares some faster than others and no the Grand Canyon was not made in a Day.
So all I can say is I will agree to disagree With You SIR.
Enjoy Life Keith
Todays Fuels is Nothing like what we got just Ten Years Ago.

There is a difference between erosion and corrosion. If you were to start this off saying corrosion made the jets bigger, Then I'd tend to agree because I have seen a lot of corrosion (here in South Florida).

[Se7]

Just and FYI on my experience with Mercury outboard jets. Built my 1500XS 18 years ago with 6 new .015 Merc hi dome pistons (keystone rings), all new bearings, gaskets, reed blocks, etc. It now has 712 hours of run time (not key time) and still leaks at 5 to 6% on a Snap On leak tester. When I built it, I put .084 Merc brass jets in it (not the steel jets we sometimes used, stock is .082). My records show they measured .084 on my pilot set when I put them in. I went thru my carbs before storage this fall and checked them again, they are still .084, a .085 would not go in the jets. I run nothing but 91 octane non-alcohol fuel (off road as they call it in MN). Use Merc race synthetic at about 45 to 1 with an ounce of Merc’s Quickleen on each fill up. Just my experience for whatever it is worth.
Dave

[Chaz]

Have I checked my jets ...
I only have one car and a weed whacker that has a carburetor . Everything else is fuel injected. I bought an injector flow/ cleaning machine to do my own and for the motors that I build. It was a lot cheaper that the wet bench system my racing partner and I built for testing MFI , pumps , barrel valves , lines , and jets. Which BTW ran straight M1 alky from VP. NHRA and IHRA forbid the use of top cyl lube in T/D , T/S classes.
So yea I have checked a jet or two , both for it's size and flow number. Including brass nitrous jets. Never once said .. gimmie~hold one of them other 32's , this~n~herez wore slap out ..

Erosion ... thats what happens to my blast cabinet and outdoors total loss sand blaster nozzles .. Steel shot , glass beads , sand and alum. oxide media @ 30 to 80 psi.

Corrosion ... You can't have it both ways. Can't have something that gets used 3 - 4 times a week ... and have it sit long enough to corrode parts thru the fuel evaporating. Even then, the jets would be the last thing to be uncovered . By then there is not enough fuel left in the bowls to kill the mains . Of course by then , you wouldn't be able to read the number and the screw driver slot would be a bit rounded out as well. Hard to make it attack the bore and leave the rest pristine.
A whole set .. ten numbers big. Monday or Friday on the screw machine or look for where they were taken out before , drilled and put back in. I'm goin with .. there someone in your neighborhood with a set of # drills ..

Now if you said, that you had needle and seats "go bad" after six months of sitting, I might be inclined to agree with you ..

Nothing is perfect ... As racer said, OMC jets run .003 on the big side. And get bigger as you climb the ladder. So you are starting out with an unknown base.

Who do you think put more effort into building carb's and parts , Holley or OMC ??
From the sound of it ... it looks like OMC put a number on a jet as a bare minimum size. Yup it's at least a .057 , they shouldn't burn no motors up .. is about as far as they went .

Every nitrous tuner I know flow's their fuel side regulator with a .073 Holley jet. Feeling confident that they can talk to someone next door or on the other side of the world and be on the same page . There's a reason for that , other wise everyone would have stormed the OMC parts counter's world wide in search of that one known constant.

I have no doubt you have been around the block a time or two. And it's great that you are willing to share what you have learned with the group. On this topic though , I think your not looking at the bigger picture.
<--( .740 + .793 S.G. test fluid (-=

Ahhh , those were the days ...

[flabum1017]

Have I checked my jets ...
I only have one car and a weed whacker that has a carburetor . Everything else is fuel injected. I bought an injector flow/ cleaning machine to do my own and for the motors that I build. It was a lot cheaper that the wet bench system my racing partner and I built for testing MFI , pumps , barrel valves , lines , and jets. Which BTW ran straight M1 alky from VP. NHRA and IHRA forbid the use of top cyl lube in T/D , T/S classes.
So yea I have checked a jet or two , both for it's size and flow number. Including brass nitrous jets. Never once said .. gimmie~hold one of them other 32's , this~n~herez wore slap out ..

Erosion ... thats what happens to my blast cabinet and outdoors total loss sand blaster nozzles .. Steel shot , glass beads , sand and alum. oxide media @ 30 to 80 psi.

Corrosion ... You can't have it both ways. Can't have something that gets used 3 - 4 times a week ... and have it sit long enough to corrode parts thru the fuel evaporating. Even then, the jets would be the last thing to be uncovered . By then there is not enough fuel left in the bowls to kill the mains . Of course by then , you wouldn't be able to read the number and the screw driver slot would be a bit rounded out as well. Hard to make it attack the bore and leave the rest pristine.
A whole set .. ten numbers big. Monday or Friday on the screw machine or look for where they were taken out before , drilled and put back in. I'm goin with .. there someone in your neighborhood with a set of # drills ..

Now if you said, that you had needle and seats "go bad" after six months of sitting, I might be inclined to agree with you ..

Nothing is perfect ... As racer said, OMC jets run .003 on the big side. And get bigger as you climb the ladder. So you are starting out with an unknown base.

Who do you think put more effort into building carb's and parts , Holley or OMC ??
From the sound of it ... it looks like OMC put a number on a jet as a bare minimum size. Yup it's at least a .057 , they shouldn't burn no motors up .. is about as far as they went .

Every nitrous tuner I know flow's their fuel side regulator with a .073 Holley jet. Feeling confident that they can talk to someone next door or on the other side of the world and be on the same page . There's a reason for that , other wise everyone would have stormed the OMC parts counter's world wide in search of that one known constant.

I have no doubt you have been around the block a time or two. And it's great that you are willing to share what you have learned with the group. On this topic though , I think your not looking at the bigger picture.
<--( .740 + .793 S.G. test fluid (-=

Ahhh , those were the days ...

Most of the corrosion problems with jets that I have seen is when salt water sits in the bottom of the bowl..... High speeds get messed up. Boat runs like crap, owner puts it away for a month then tries to start it with no luck..... bring to me, I open up the carbs and it's too late by then. The carbs with plastic bowls do a little better when the water sits in them since there is only brass jets, no aluminum for them to interact with. But still, brass is copper and zinc.... it will eat itself apart in salt water. This all takes time and like Chaz says, if you use the boat 3 - 4 times a week, it's unlikely to erode or corrode.

[keith scotton]

If you you use your bead blast cabinet long enough the tip wares out weather its mild steel ceramic or carbide steel this is Erosion. Causes water wind grit and so on. Corrosion is a chemical reaction caused by outside sources water air chemicals and others. Both of these things take time depending on what is going on and how aggressive the reaction is. All thing ware in a combustion engine oil rings bearings cylinder bores pistons and jets some faster than others. The people at Holley carburetor said this does happen on long time use applications and jets are cheap so replace them. Nothing lasts forever. Chaz likes to express his Opinion but it is just his. I was at the Drag Strip in Houston and Baton Rouge When Eddie Hill ran sub 4 second Quarter miles People said it would never Happen It did. I liked Modified Production racing Weight to cubic inches little motors heave cars love to hear them scream. My Friend Paul Taylor and his Brother Run Pro mod. Never had the money for any of that. Seen tunnel boats do 360 in the air come back down and go again seen them turned in to splinters. IF You Stand Around Long Enough Things Change no Mater How hard People try to Stop it. All I was trying to do was See if Other People Had seen this Not Get Beat on By THE Few.
Thanks To the ones that replied.
Go out and be amazed at what happens in the WORLD Speak up if you think YOU should dont let the FEW SMASH you Down.
Enjoy Life Keith
By the way WALLY is Very hard To obtain I know A Few THAT Have.

[Dave S]

HeeHee..... Chaz don't know nutting........But he has a award with a Holley on it? Scotty..... More Power......

[Chaz]

HeeHee..... Chaz don't know nutting........But he has a award with a Holley on it? Scotty..... More Power......

Only a couple few times ...

I was at the Drag Strip in Houston and Baton Rouge When Eddie Hill ran sub 4 second Quarter miles People said it would never Happen It did. I liked Modified Production racing Weight to cubic inches little motors heave cars love to hear them scream. My Friend Paul Taylor and his Brother Run Pro mod. Never had the money for any of that.

Well Keith, I hate to be the bearer of bad news once again...
But Hill ran a "sub 5 second quarter mile"
Modified Production has been dissolved for over 30 years .
I have been involved with a few Pro Mod cars .. bit different than watchin from the fence.
Wally ... yea , he's in my office ..

[InjectorService]

I don't really have any skin in the "carb jet" discussion here..... BUT I do know a thing or 2 about fuel injectors. And one thing that I do know is that if you use the wrong cleaning fluid in an ultrasonic while cleaning, you can actually eat away the pintle holes, creating spray pattern and flow issues. (I'm talking about a 10 minute ultrasonic session). No cleaners with abrasive materials here. (by the way, you would be suprised what is all considered abrasive, most cleaners you find are)

Another example of this is ETEC injectors not flowing enough fuel. If you don't know already the ETEC injector contains its own metal on metal fuel pump of sorts. Fuel system cleaners, dirt, water etc, will wear these to the point that they will stop pumping almost completely.

Again, I'm not taking either side here, but I do know that you may be surprised at what can all wear out from something as simple as fuel, or fuel system cleaners.

Blake

[Chaz]

No cleaners with abrasive materials here. (by the way, you would be suprised what is all considered abrasive, most cleaners you find are)

Again, I'm not taking either side here, but I do know that you may be surprised at what can all wear out from something as simple as fuel, or fuel system cleaners.

Blake

There are no "sides" here , just common sense and a few wife's tales ..

BTW .. Don't say ya know sumptin , without sayin what ya know .. it only take away from your credibility ..

Big diff between warm soapy water and caustic (acid) type cleaners. I wouldn't advise washing your car or taking a bath in Drain-O . Like I said , Common sense

A little simple math (I posted the formula)

The area of a 57 (.057) jet is .002552"

The new ware (wore for those of us that speak English) out jets is claimed to be pinned at .067 or .003526

So forgive me if I cant see either an injector or a full set of jets increase 38.166% in size by cleaning / using / abusing them ...

Please pass the gasoline ... I need to wash my hands and b***'s

[keith scotton]

I went back and looked you are correct CHAZ it was a Sub 5 second not a Sub 4 Second. .001 Is a Very small unit of measure that is .0005 a side. I started this with a Question. I have went back and looked at some of your posts If you disagree with someone You start bashing THEM. I am not perfect just said this is what I had seen more than once. I quit going to Drag Racing because it had become like all sports started by general people. If I cant Win we should change the rules so I can. I do not think that throttle stops studder boxes computer controlled timer to leave and stop or slamming on the brakes on the big end is Racing I was Brought up To Run What You Had as Hard And As Fast As it would go and be as safe as possible doing so. The last time I went the Cajun Nationals There Were Over 300 Sportsman Racers. A car That will run in the 8s Running in a 9.90 bracket is not racing but that is why the rules changed so the guy that could not win could not to make him a better smarter racer.
Enjoy Life Keith
O by the way all the Wallys I have seen have a Drag slick on one side a helmet on the other this could have changed. But my Eye Sight is NOT What it used to be. Never did spell So GOOD but I think You get The jest of what I am talking about.

[Chaz]

Stating facts is not bashing . Do your homework "before" making false statements.

I'm not a big fan of "super" class racing either , but as you have stated hundred's of people show up to run those classes. At the end of the day someone is gonna win it , guys , gals , young adults , that ring the bell over and over are crowned champions.
Until you can consistently knock them off, it only makes you look bad to slight what they do.

Being a bracket racer at heart. I guess I'm not a "real" racer either . But then, some of us brake pedal race way quicker and faster than you have ever been .. don't give you much room to say we're not racing ...

Let me know when you hang a perfect run on the board.
Trip zip on the tree and on with an egg .. as we say

[25two.stroke]

I know at the beginning of this he said that it was a stock motor...and I don't really want to say its not possible that they wore 11 sizes bigger cause enough people here have already said that, but I know MANY mechanics here (SF Bay area) that have a STANDARD practice of opening jets and not sanding/re-stamping them after. they either open them 1,2 or 3 sizes bigger with an oxy torch tip cleaning tool, or just drill them out with the tightest fractional drill bit. Then, down the road, the next guy who works on the motor has no idea. Its a standard fishin motor practice, especially when a motor is worn way out, or (as was mentioned earlier in this thread) there is another problem in the carb/intake system.

This happens (in my experience) the most on carbs where you can pull the main jet without pulling the carb. People pull the jet/adjustment needles and spray carb cleaner/compressed air in there and then button it back up instead of takin it apart proper. Then when it still don't run right they drill out the jet and it sometimes half-ass comes out of it. Charge the guy $500 and this mechanic just made his day!

[InjectorService]

There are no "sides" here , just common sense and a few wife's tales ..

BTW .. Don't say ya know sumptin , without sayin what ya know .. it only take away from your credibility ..

Big diff between warm soapy water and caustic (acid) type cleaners. I wouldn't advise washing your car or taking a bath in Drain-O . Like I said , Common sense

A little simple math (I posted the formula)

The area of a 57 (.057) jet is .002552"

The new ware (wore for those of us that speak English) out jets is claimed to be pinned at .067 or .003526

So forgive me if I cant see either an injector or a full set of jets increase 38.166% in size by cleaning / using / abusing them ...

Please pass the gasoline ... I need to wash my hands and b***'s
[/video]

I'm not 100% sure what your getting at with this reply.

I was simpley trying to state that there are processes (such as ultrasonic cleaning), or chemicals that may have been used on the jet, or carb, that may have increased its flow.

Ive seen entire throttle plates eaten off of carbs from improper cleaning.

Blake

[keith scotton]

Just so Every one Knows My boss at the time Sold this motor. Once a year I change lower lube and plugs. If it was mine would change lube mid season I do not think I ever worked on carbs until he started gripping about fuel usage. Still had black gaskets in them and orange tips on needles.
That is about what Top Fuel Cars ran when I was a Kid. A Couple of my bikes used to go about 175 Road gets real skinny at that speed. Telephone poles do look like picket fences. Too many People around here to even ride a bike any more.
Enjoy Life Keith