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01-20-2021, 07:08 AM #76
yes water will erode a rock over a few hundred years. also water is a lot harder than petrol..
for it to go up 11 sizes would need to be put on some mega high pressures that the carb bowl seals would not handle....
11 sizes up tells me they have been enlarged by drill or reamed out. NOT fuel erosion.
just my thoughts.
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01-21-2021, 06:31 PM #77
In a word ..... yes
So now we have heard it from Florida to California. North to Canada and half way around the world to England ... with stops in between ...
They say if three or more people call you a horse, you should go saddle shoppin ...
Chaz = waitin on a thank you for all of us who tried ..
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01-21-2021, 08:36 PM #78
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01-21-2021, 11:14 PM #79
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01-25-2021, 01:16 AM #80
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02-08-2021, 12:22 AM #81
Jet observation
Keith Scotton asked me to take a closer look at the jets in question and them to compare to a couple of others.
I took 3 jets to check out so the first thing i did was rinse them in mineral spirits the blow them dry with compressed shop air. Then I measured them with pin gages. These are my findings
one brand new,never used 59D jet. It measured .0595-.059"
one used (unknown hours) 62D jet. It measured .063"
one worn 59D jet. It measured .071", Approximately .012" over the size stamped on it. This is one of the jets that prompted him to start this thread.
also worth noting is that there was no measurable taper in the orifice of any of the jets. The machining marks also indicate that the holes were reamed with a straight reamer.
Just for reference i also measured the inlet/out of each one
The new 59D and used 62D both measured .112-.113" on both ends.
The worn 59D measured .121-.123". About.010" larger than the other two
I then milled each one in half lengthwise to expose the metering orifice as well as the inlet and outlet. I viewed them and took pictures with my Iphone looking thru a magnifying glass. Pretty crude I know but its all I had.
The new 59D as expected was shiny and gold with machining marks evident on all surfaces. Corners and edges were sharp and crisp.
The used 62D had a dull yellow finish but machining marks were still very noticeable. Also had sharp and crisp edges and corners.
The worn 59D had a bright gold color but the surface finish resembled a fresh glass bead finish. There are NO machining marks visible on any of the internal surfaces and the edges and corners were slightly rounded over and less sharp and crisp than the others.
Hopefully the measurements and pictures will help you all to see that theres something very unusual about the jet that Keith was talking about. I dont believe that its a coincidence that the orifice and the inlet/outlets are both .010-.012" larger than the other examples.
I remember reading years ago that certain additives in newer gear lubes will attack the brass and bronze parts inside older car and truck manual transmissions and transfer cases. I looked it up and found out that the chemicals that are harmful are phosphorous and sulfur and and they are found in at least one popular 2 stroke outboard oil.
I'm happy to answer any questions about what I found.
https://www.machinerylubrication.com...itives-effects
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...cle-oil.35692/
Interesting too that this thread about the Pennzoil also mentions that BMW claims sulfur is doesnt play well with Nikasil plating.
New 59D
Used 62D
New59D and worn 59D
new 59D andworn59D (different lighting)
worn 59D closeuplimited skills
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02-08-2021, 06:56 AM #82
Then it's just as we have been saying all along, this could not happen without an abrasive causing the erosion or something such as water or another reactive chemical causing electrolysis or corrosion.
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors". Plato .
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02-08-2021, 07:15 AM #83
yes a chemical reaction would be my guess but I'm not a chemist or metallurgist so take that for what its worth.
I'm just glad that Keith shared his experience for everyones benefit. There were other theories offered by other people too.
He only offered his guess as to what caused it but enlisted my help to figure out why. After all its easy to find a problem but finding a solution to the problem is more difficult.limited skills
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02-08-2021, 07:41 AM #84
Not saying you're wrong to assume it was what's in the oil, but with all the guys here that use Pennzoil, you would think we would see a lot more of this problem.
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors". Plato .
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02-08-2021, 10:23 AM #85
The only thing I feel 99.9% sure of is that the orifice wasnt opened up by any traditional means like drilling or reaming. But I still dont KNOW what caused it and i'd love to hear more thoughts about it now that we haave a better idea of what they look like.
one thing I forgot to mention was thaat none of the sample jets had been cleaned by abrasive blasting.
In all fairness to Keith,his ssecond post (#7) mentions outboard oil as possibly contributing to this.
Ive been using the either the Pennzoil semi synthetic or the XLF version almost exclusively for probably 15 years. Its come highly recomended by some respectable engine builders. After seeing this I will most DEFINITELY been checking my jets and thats exactly what he was pointing out to us. I would hope that any performance oriented boater would do the sameLast edited by loop; 02-08-2021 at 10:30 AM.
limited skills
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02-08-2021, 12:16 PM #86
What gets me is how straight the bore is all the way through. Generally with erosion or corrosion, you would not see such uniformity. there would be pits and the bore would not be as consistent as it is. I would wager someone had bored those jets larger and whatever etched them did so on a much smaller extent.
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors". Plato .
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02-08-2021, 12:32 PM #87
There used to be a time you were in complete control off your jet size before somebody decided it was a bad idea.
I think the moral of the story is you should always check stuff yourself not rely on somebody else or what they tell you!
If i would have done that before i put in my brand-new FiveO motorsports injectors i would probably not have trashed a piston
as far as corrosion pick your poison
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02-08-2021, 12:45 PM #88
really don't understand what ya'll are "assuming"???.. if ya don't have an original, checked at tha very first start number ya'll are jus guessin' on wear n tare/erosion measured years later.. given tha outboard "quality control" you don't have a clue as to what they started out at.......... jmo.
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02-08-2021, 01:04 PM #895000 RPM
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The Jet in the picture is out the second motor I have seen from the start of this posting second customer did not even know what a jet was. Jets are marked at the factory and as stated by racer will run one or two sizes larger than marked. These motors have water separators. I have been seeing this for a long time. Most of the time on 60 degree v6 but have seen this on other OMC-BRP Products.
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02-08-2021, 01:12 PM #905000 RPM
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The Jet in the picture is out the second motor I have seen from the start of this posting second customer did not even know what a jet was. Jets are marked at the factory and as stated by racer will run one or two sizes larger than marked. These motors have water separators. I have been seeing this for a long time 10 plus years. Most of the time on 60 degree v6 but have seen this on other OMC-BRP Products. .070 is not a common drill size you can buy at the home depot of the rack. If you look at the jet the inlet and outlet are larger as is the taper to the bore.
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