Nitrous Oxide for 2 stroke 280

[darknet]

Looking for info on how to set up a Nitrous shot on my 280. I have the spacer plate drilled for two tubes. Need to know who to talk to about getting all parts, and the shop or person who knows whats up, the real deal person. Not looking for more than a 50 HP set up.

[keefallan]

A nitrous system is not too complicated. I had one set up on my car years ago. You need a solenoid for the fuel and a solenoid for the nitrous. I am assuming that the spacer plate will host the spray bars for the fuel and nitrous? You need to have a steady supply of fuel(5-7) psi to the fuel solenoid. But for safety, you should incorporate a hobbs switch to cut off the nitrous should fuel pressure be an issue. The solenoids is where you will be incorporating the button to turn it on or off. You could also incorporate a micro switch in series that makes(electrically makes) behind the throttle linkage to keep the nitrous from coming on only at wide open throttle. The only thing left to figure out is the jetting. There are charts already done for the proper jets. However, I do not know if two stroke jetting is different due to the oil in the fuel.


From the solenoids you will need -4an lines to connect from the solenoids to the spray bars. An -an line will be run from the nitrous to the nitrous solenoid. The fuel supply line should have a tee fitting before the fuel solenoid...........an in, out, and a short line to the hobbs switch. Between the hobbs switch and the micro switch at the linkage, they are your safeguards to keep your motor alive.

[darknet]

Thanks for that info. I still need to know who makes the tubs that run down the spacer plate. Not sure how I am going to use a a solenoid for 5-7 psi when I am running a black [ 56lbs.] fuel pressure regulator on an EFI motor. Like I said in my post, I need the guy that does NOS on EFI outboards with experience and success doing it! If any one knows or knows of such person please PM me or reply to this post. Thank you.

[kellytheaker]

There is a nitrous spacer and lines on the for sale section - Yard Sale is the title - may help you if it' the right plate . He is a good guy to deal with - hope it helps

[Capt.Insane-o]

Methanol chaser with a lot of oil. I rather a loose set of heads and more juice than trying to hose a 220 psi motor. You can build the parts from N2O systems but the most important is the washdown. I ran a 125 shot on a 260 with 32cc heads for a long time.

[darknet]

Thanks for all the input and advice. I found the man to talk to, Steve Glenn at Hydrodynamics in Texas. I am pretty sure he won a world championship about the same time that Jay Smith won his. They were in two different classes and Steve won it on NOS with a 2.4, if I remember correctly, its been awhile. Not going to be drag racing, just got a couple old boys on the water I need to #uck with for fun. Thanks again.

[XP300]

Flow the System before it gets to the engine.
Cheap parts will net expensive results
Wiring is an important piece to the puzzle
The previous Meth advice is an excellent suggestion.
A fuel bypass and Gas purge not a bad idea
gauges and Data system will save Money
test on an iron bore.
absolutely fun and addicting done right.

[trimup]

Methanol works great as enrichment fuel but at least here in the midwest E85 plus some Klotz Hitrate works just as good and is a whole lot easier to source, much less expensive, and miscibe with most synthetic outboard oils. Test your E85 every time for actual alcohol content then add 1 pint of Hitrate for every gallon of gasoline content. IE if your ten gallons of E85 tests as actually 60% ethanol then add two quarts of Hitrate. This is a little heavier than Klotz recommends for mixing Hitrate with premium pump gas but the gasoline used in E85 is generally the cheapest base stock 84-86 octane available at the time of blending. Methanol is 112 pump octane, Ethanol is 110 pump octane, E85 varies between 100 and 105 depending upon ethanol content and octane rating of the gasoline base stock, E85 mixed with Hitrate in my method is back to a consistent 110. I prefer Nitrous Express nozzles, jets and especially their solenoids.

[Chaz]

You would be better off running the motor on its fuel system.
Then build a dedicated fuel system for the nitrous side. You need yo have twice the pressure between the pump and regulator as you have you have flowing between the solenoid and jet. say you flow your system @ 6 psi you pump pressure should be at 12 psi .. On multi system's we ran 3 to 1 .. but a small single 2 to 1 is plenty. The reason being , everybody's happy until the solenoid crack's open and you see a quick drop in pressure. The reason you see cheap Holley 12-803 regulators on multi system Pro cars worth hundred's of thousands of dollars is that they are still the quickest reacting to recover from the dip.

Keep in mind, oil kills octane. And it's prone to detonate. Use what it need to live, exceeding that becomes too much of a good thing .. After you step off the button as Capt said .. keep the fuel side running for a few tenths. You can do that thru a digi-set timer. You or I will forget .. it won't.

Retarding 2-3 degree's for every 50 HP is a good rule of thumb. It's easier to put a little back in , than a rack or pistons.

There are a couple bad things about spray bars. Especially long one's and or large diameter tubes. It gets worse if you try to only feed them from one end. If your going to use one solenoid , put a tee on the exit or put a solenoid on each end. Single feed is 100 years ago .. Run away from that deal.
Any media, be it air, water, gasoline, nitrous .. has no business going out any of the spray bar holes until after it has taken the path of least resistance , which in this case is the end of the tube. as it builds pressure from the end - back, fluid will find the holes and escape. Early plenum spray bar systems I built that were fed from one side, I soldered my end plug just shy of the last hole in line. It stopped the nitrous from "stacking up and pulsing" as it phase changed in the end. It was really just a poor band-aid .. until everybody figured out the best way was double feed . Even if the lines aren't the same length. Bar systems aren't real efficient down around the 50 HP level, especially if you use large diameter tubing. I wouldn't go any bigger than 3/16" diameter tubing .. Larger than that and the small jet(s) has a tough time keeping the tube pressurized ..

Single end feed ....



Later double feed ....

[rgsauger]

Nitrous is like a slut. You want to hit it...but you know there will be consequences.

[scott reierson]

Sent you a PM on the system I used.

From my past experience I agree with Steve & Chaz. I used the Hydrodynamics system with the Methanol/Bean oil mix in a separate tank and pump system. Ran the safety switch, pyros and wash system.

I installed it exactly the way he told me to. Worked perfect. Never blew a motor. Just like he said...it's like having another motor back there.

[Capt.Insane-o]

This dude is going for 50 hp so bars will be fine. I did and will do separate nozzles for further shenanigans. Never been a fan of dead head systems fuel or spray. Feed from both ends

[trimup]

If you are going to use spraybars they better be built by somebody that knows the exact motor combination you are running. Quality spraybars use holes carefully aimed and reamed to size and should not be altered by the average user. Individual nozzle systems are straightforward to flow and jet to any combination. I prefer high pressure enrichment with a bypass style regulator even on carb motors just have to make sure small enough fuel jets exist for small shots, 8-9hp per nozzle like this is getting close to the smallest that can be accommodated. Might not matter a bit at this power level in a two stroke but Piranha or Fogger nozzles produce a better atomized charge than spaybars could ever hope to.

[keefallan]

Since my nitrous use was only on street motors, my question for the 2 stroke nitrous guys. This is all theoretical. I have no intentions of installing a system on my motors...at least for now or ever. If I were to build a system, I would do fogger nozzles. I love the atomization of them. does it matter if you installed them before or after the reeds? and why?

[Chaz]

I don't think it would be a good idea to crankcase inject a multi cylinder two stroke. The "kit" is batch fire ... and the motor goes from vacuum to pressure with each stroke. Say your flowing fuel pressure is 5 psi .. the crankcase can go from +7 to -7 , not good for a steady fuel plume ..
Maybe it would work @ three bar .. 43.5 PSI but then the fuel jets would be so small I wouldn't trust them. I had a 28N/22F as a second gun on my dragster. Worked fine till it plugged a fuel jet and torched that hole. I swore off puny jets right then and there.
That's why when I built this system, I only used three nozzles. One for each pair of reed blocks. The reed pedals don't like to get hit with a direct shot , so I backed the nozzle away and aimed it at the far corner. Air flow will "bend" the plume into the cage area, and then each cylinder will take what it wants.

In testing, coming off the button had all the fuel run out the bottom nozzle , just like taking your finger off of a straw full of soda. Problem of vertical stacking.
I've since reduced the size of every part of the system. And the solenoids thread directly into the distribution blocks. It still bleeds out of the bottom , but since the internal volume is more than 50% less .. I don't see it as being a problem.
One thing that does need to happen is that the air temp sensor needs to be outside the plenum .. no need for the PCM to think that it's -125* outside ...

Chaz = thinkin, A $1200 dollar , 350 horse , "225 EFI" and a 80 shot gives one all the freedom in the world to call a 300r .. the over priced , porkchop that it is ...