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  1. #1
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    APBA's Days Numbered?

    For an organization that claims to be stable and funded, why is their president asking for cash donations for a "relief fund"?

  2. #2
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    I would say 2020 sure didn't help things.
    2005 APR FORMULA 2 ROOKIE OF THE YEAR

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  4. #3
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    Dead to me..... Many years ago...…..insurance issues at the time...…..Then came the Yamatos……...Pifft…….JMO...….and non will agree.....lack of public interest…..times changing......

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  6. #4
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    Past Due On Membership Dues

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave S View Post
    Dead to me..... Many years ago...…..insurance issues at the time...…..Then came the Yamatos……...Pifft…….JMO...….and non will agree.....lack of public interest…..times changing......
    Last time I renewed my membership was 19 years ago.

  7. #5
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    I quit renewing when they stopped printing rule books and record books.
    30 some yrs ago.

    I noticed yrs back that was more and more difficult to even find records or tech specs on their website.

    On my side, when they dropped oval course size from 1 2/3 miles to 1 1/4 then 1 mile, that was a huge knock for me.
    You spent more time in the turns than flying the boat down a straightaway.

    After 9 yrs of travel and being broke, I threw in the towel but planned to re-enter when finances improved.
    When they did, I wanted nothing to do w/going in circles.

    They said they shortened the courses due to gas shortages of the late 70’s, early 80’s.
    But never went back.
    Always wondered how much fuel we saved anyhow.
    Dont think I ever burned more than 5 gls in my kneel downs for a weekend.
    Even w/testing.

    Later they said the shorter courses = lower speeds which meant cheaper insurance.

    In about 1980/81 we ran for 1 1/4 mile records in Dayton Ohio.
    I took 2nd and the guy that beat me set a world record in the new Yamato 20 SSH class.
    I won a t shirt and they were out of my size!

    That was the beginning of the end for me.

    Add the over the top safety regs for us in the US.
    I remember seeing an A Stock Hydro (55 mph boat) w/a capsule in it!
    I'd rather be competitive w/junk I built in my garage than win w/stuff I bought.


    I refuse to allow common sense to interfere w/my boat buying decisions.


    Checkmate 16' 140 Johnson
    Hydrostream 17' Vector FrankenRude I
    Laser 480 (?) 21' w/GT 200
    Glastron Carlson Conquest w/XP 2.6
    Glastron Carlson CVX 20 w/XP 2.6
    24' Sonic w/twin 250 Johnsons
    24' Sonic w/twin 250 HO Johnsons
    19' STV River Rocket w/FrankenRude II
    Allison XR 2002 w/Frankenrude II
    Hydrostream 18' V-King w/Frankenrude II

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  9. #6
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    Y'all might want to check the site and see who is on the board these days........some real solid guys/gals over there...
    Last edited by RIVERRUMMER 70; 10-06-2020 at 08:08 AM.

  10. #7
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    More Rubble

    Quote Originally Posted by Instigator View Post
    I quit renewing when they stopped printing rule books and record books.
    30 some yrs ago.

    I noticed yrs back that was more and more difficult to even find records or tech specs on their website.

    On my side, when they dropped oval course size from 1 2/3 miles to 1 1/4 then 1 mile, that was a huge knock for me.
    You spent more time in the turns than flying the boat down a straightaway.

    After 9 yrs of travel and being broke, I threw in the towel but planned to re-enter when finances improved.
    When they did, I wanted nothing to do w/going in circles.

    They said they shortened the courses due to gas shortages of the late 70’s, early 80’s.
    But never went back.
    Always wondered how much fuel we saved anyhow.
    Dont think I ever burned more than 5 gls in my kneel downs for a weekend.
    Even w/testing.

    Later they said the shorter courses = lower speeds which meant cheaper insurance.

    In about 1980/81 we ran for 1 1/4 mile records in Dayton Ohio.
    I took 2nd and the guy that beat me set a world record in the new Yamato 20 SSH class.
    I won a t shirt and they were out of my size!

    That was the beginning of the end for me.

    Add the over the top safety regs for us in the US.
    I remember seeing an A Stock Hydro (55 mph boat) w/a capsule in it!

    Yep..........and the "what if" safety committee got out of hand changing safety capsule specs every year. Then they cooked up a "risk manager" job for every race committee. Only effort I saw out of anybody in Detroit was to declare themselves "secondary insurance providers" if you got hurt racing. What was my dues paying for anyway? Speed records blew away in the dust when boats got heavier with mandated capsules. To my memory, the OPC category went years without even having a chairman? The publishing of the Propeller got later every year with more vendor ads than photos and articles. We paid for a couple of full time staff people who never answered the Detroit phone numbers? When the race awards degraded to paper certificates and coffee cups and ad-hoc rescue volunteers, that was it for me. Took me years to sell off my inventory at 10% of its value. Final insult was the creation of "vintage class" (anti capsule).

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  12. #8
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    Their "president" is a weak leader (hate using that word to describe him actually) so it wouldn't be a surprise to hear that they are in trouble.

  13. #9
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    Trouble At The Helm

    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Burns View Post
    Their "president" is a weak leader (hate using that word to describe him actually) so it wouldn't be a surprise to hear that they are in trouble.
    But he seems to have the time to record a promotional video for Merc Racing's new APX 360 though? I've had enuf reading on the other S&F thread (General Disgusting / pun intended) about all the jibberish being typed up about the new F1 engine. It's symptomatic that the APBA is nearly dead...........especially OPC. 70 boats showing up for some event? I don't think so!!!

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  15. #10
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    they need to update there rulebooks to allow for what's available and what is going to come in the future.

  16. #11
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    Back To The Future.....

    Quote Originally Posted by wicheckmate View Post
    they need to update there rulebooks to allow for what's available and what is going to come in the future.
    It's the future stuff that's hard to deal with, now that it's entirely 4 stroke / heavier products. Their rule book pretty much covers the old available hardware but the new or future stuff is a entirely different story. When the SST200 "green motor" was introduced as an experiment the ECU made the thing such a whimp for lighting up on the beach for LeMans starts that everybody had to agree to let that driver have a 2 second count down advantage to level the playing field with the SST120 two strokes. All of this was "invented" on the fly at local races and never made it to print in any rule books I ever had from the APBA. It's the classic paradox........older 2 stroke stuff that's put together and paid for vs a $62K F1 race engine with ultra exclusive availability? Nobody wants to take the financial risk of adapting a long shaft 4 stroke to run in any existing OPC classes. rule book allows for any hull type (V hulls too) but the safety capsule requirement cannot be met because nobody is building any for a reasonable price? The Europeans have somehow continued with a way to keep racing with heavier capsule hulls with 4 stroke power and 20 inch stock mid sections. The APBA OPC members simply disappeared. COVID19 had nothing to do with it. This "storm" has been brewing for years.

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  18. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaterZebra View Post
    It's the future stuff that's hard to deal with, now that it's entirely 4 stroke / heavier products. Their rule book pretty much covers the old available hardware but the new or future stuff is a entirely different story. When the SST200 "green motor" was introduced as an experiment the ECU made the thing such a whimp for lighting up on the beach for LeMans starts that everybody had to agree to let that driver have a 2 second count down advantage to level the playing field with the SST120 two strokes. All of this was "invented" on the fly at local races and never made it to print in any rule books I ever had from the APBA. It's the classic paradox........older 2 stroke stuff that's put together and paid for vs a $62K F1 race engine with ultra exclusive availability? Nobody wants to take the financial risk of adapting a long shaft 4 stroke to run in any existing OPC classes. rule book allows for any hull type (V hulls too) but the safety capsule requirement cannot be met because nobody is building any for a reasonable price? The Europeans have somehow continued with a way to keep racing with heavier capsule hulls with 4 stroke power and 20 inch stock mid sections. The APBA OPC members simply disappeared. COVID19 had nothing to do with it. This "storm" has been brewing for years.
    I agree with part of that. They need to lay off the rules and go with 4 strokes/modern twos and weights to start and let it expand from there if the market so desires it. No kid/young adult right now without a connection somewhere can go and buy any of the old stuff. A path needs to be put forward to let a person buy a 200 or whatever it might be and go race it somewhere and somehow weather that's straight drag or roundy round.

  19. #13
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    Buying Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by wicheckmate View Post
    I agree with part of that. They need to lay off the rules and go with 4 strokes/modern twos and weights to start and let it expand from there if the market so desires it. No kid/young adult right now without a connection somewhere can go and buy any of the old stuff. A path needs to be put forward to let a person buy a 200 or whatever it might be and go race it somewhere and somehow weather that's straight drag or roundy round.
    Your comment about finding stuff to buy caught my attention. Some guys refused to read the writing on the wall and steadfastly refused to sell their stuff until the demand for it returned (LOL). I listed all my equipment on this website for 3 years before selling all of it for 10% of its fair market value. Running an ad in the APBA Propeller classifieds was a joke. I think the difficulty of finding any of the older stuff is that the guys who have it simply gave up trying to sell. Organized boat racing is nearly impossible to do these days with all the permitting and insurance requirements. Things were a lot simpler to do in the 70s and 80s.

  20. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaterZebra View Post
    Your comment about finding stuff to buy caught my attention. Some guys refused to read the writing on the wall and steadfastly refused to sell their stuff until the demand for it returned (LOL). I listed all my equipment on this website for 3 years before selling all of it for 10% of its fair market value. Running an ad in the APBA Propeller classifieds was a joke. I think the difficulty of finding any of the older stuff is that the guys who have it simply gave up trying to sell. Organized boat racing is nearly impossible to do these days with all the permitting and insurance requirements. Things were a lot simpler to do in the 70s and 80s.
    Agree but I mean now.. all the rules are based on stuff that's not made anymore. How much longer are we going to be banging on beaten up stuff. Putting on boat races is a little harder than it used to be but not impossible. We need to welcome younger people into the sport and do that with products that are currently available. Our association has actually grown the last few years with boat count from what it used to be.

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  22. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by wicheckmate View Post
    Agree but I mean now.. all the rules are based on stuff that's not made anymore. How much longer are we going to be banging on beaten up stuff. Putting on boat races is a little harder than it used to be but not impossible. We need to welcome younger people into the sport and do that with products that are currently available. Our association has actually grown the last few years with boat count from what it used to be.
    Long story short. I retired from the Army last year. I worked in the modernization field designing the Army for 2028, 2035, and beyond.

    My point is this, does APBA (really OPC) have a modernization strategy for the next 5, 10, or 20 years? Could Mercury, Honda, Yamaha, and Suzuki retrofit with new race engines but use existing mid section and lower unit? This is just an idea to bring in a new generation and keep costs down. As far as I can tell with OPC, there isn’t a near term (2 years and under), mid term (3-5 years), and far term (6 years and out) plan and solutions to go with it. If there is a strategy for the future, everyone should see it (not just members). APBA/OPC really needs a committee or working group for modernization that nests with their strategic plans.

    I love the sound of a two stroke racing, but unfortunately four strokes and than electric is the future. I know it’s a bitter pill, but the EPA is coming even harder now. If anyone wants me to explain army modernization, dm me and we can talk.

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