Mercury racing 360 hp NA v8

**engineermike** · 09-21-2020, 06:37 AM

Why would any manufacturer sell a product for less than what the market will bear?

**XstreamVking** · 09-21-2020, 06:44 AM

That corporate attitude is the same one that big pharma has. Make a single pill cost 3k and w/o it a human suffers or dies. Who cares? If the less wealthy or uninsured can't afford it, then tough luck.....Obviously, not the same situation as to need. But same amount of concern for the consumer. OB mfgs. used to tout the VALUE of their products in their old ads. Now the performance numbers get the top of the page. The smaller mercs are still a decent value IMO. As you can see from the posts here, some merc loyalists feel left out and maybe betrayed by a co. that they have always supported, both financially and as a brand.

**DangerNewb** · 09-21-2020, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by Lake rat Skater

I agree but they are going to sell what 50,000 super duties a year where Mercury Racing might sell 50 of these motors?

I dont have hard numbers but I'd say they will sell more like 50 per month.

**powerabout** · 09-21-2020, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by engineermike

Why would any manufacturer sell a product for less than what the market will bear?

Youe not familiar with the long term Japanese marketing plan are you?
Not sure they did it with cars as they didnt have any competition but with outboards they did and where are they today re volume?

**engineermike** · 09-21-2020, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by powerabout

Youe not familiar with the long term Japanese marketing plan are you?
Not sure they did it with cars as they didnt have any competition but with outboards they did and where are they today re volume?

Economics 101....I’m assuming you’re talking about yamaha, not Honda or Suzuki. Either way, simple supply and demand curve intersection determines the price. Yamaha had plenty of supply and priced them low to move them. Mercury does the same and sells every one they can make.

**powerabout** · 09-21-2020, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by engineermike

Economics 101....I’m assuming you’re talking about yamaha, not Honda or Suzuki. Either way, simple supply and demand curve intersection determines the price. Yamaha had plenty of supply and priced them low to move them. Mercury does the same and sells every one they can make.

I was referring to yam that got caught and paid the price for dumping engines below cost, twice...

**Chaz** · 09-21-2020, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by engineermike

Why would any manufacturer sell a product for less than what the market will bear?

Mikey , to you they are only $95,000.00 a copy ...

Cricket's on the prop shafts ...

Here's a couple fella's that ain't afraid to tell the truth ....>

Six on the little motors .. and six in the last two months . Joe , I'm surprised you didn't know about the second one ...

Twenty ... Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
See how much better you can feel when you tell the truth !

**InjectorService** · 09-21-2020, 09:59 AM

Clearly the prop shafts are an issue with that much torque. Hopefully they sort it out soon, it's not right of them to be denying the claims, that's just plain BS. Don't forget, part of the price tag is warranty. They know their approximate warranty costs per motor, and that is built into the price of the motor.

I think what is going on here, is that Mercury is saying "anyone who can afford a 450R can afford a propshaft and prop". Either that or the fact that historically prop shafts broke when they hit objects, and they haven't adapted or come to the realization yet that these motors need a more robust shaft.

**JPEROG** · 09-21-2020, 05:36 PM

Looks like the Brendan is talking about 250 and 300XS motors. Randy is referring to 4 strokes.

I am well aware of it and so is Mercury. When you have problem, you work with the manufacture if you want them to continue to cover it and you are expected to change your what you are doing until the problem is rectified. This customer was asked to please not put the motor to the floor and hold it if the prop is vibrating violently and "buzzing the boat". Its obviously creating a bad harmonic similar to a die grinder grabbing a hold of an inner circle if you were attempting to open it up-Does anyone just hold the die grinder wide open and hope for the best? No, you let off and go back after it gently. To me this is common sense. When you accelerate hard while pulling a load with your truck and it torque shutters do you just stay in the throttle? If you do, there will eventually be drive line parts being picked up off the street.

I am in NO way saying that this problem is not there and the manufacture is well aware of it as "they pay big for these claims" but repeated activity with a different anticipated result is the definition of insanity. So my simple advise would be to bring the boat up on plane without vibrating it death and run it hard after its hooked up. At least until the manufacture can put a fix in place "unless you like being towed".

I have been in, driven, filmed, and seen what the notched center pod boats do coming on plane. They are brutal as they search for clean water to bite into and its not there until the boat lays over and the air void behind the pod dissipates.

Joe

**JPEROG** · 09-21-2020, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Chaz

The question there remains : How many V-8's are broken waiting on wty repairs.. ???? Just a number thanks , no need to go into rationalization and justification .

The question there remains : How many V-8's are broken waiting on wty repairs.. ???? Just a number thanks , no need to go into rationalization and justification .

The question there remains : How many V-8's are broken waiting on wty repairs.. ???? Just a number thanks , no need to go into rationalization and justification .

The question there remains : How many V-8's are broken waiting on wty repairs.. ???? Just a number thanks , no need to go into rationalization and justification .

The question there remains : How many V-8's are broken waiting on wty repairs.. ???? Just a number thanks , no need to go into rationalization and justification .

The question there remains : How many V-8's are broken waiting on wty repairs.. ???? Just a number thanks , no need to go into rationalization and justification .

The question there remains : How many V-8's are broken waiting on wty repairs.. ???? Just a number thanks , no need to go into rationalization and justification .

The question there remains : How many V-8's are broken waiting on wty repairs.. ???? Just a number thanks , no need to go into rationalization and justification .

If you still don't get it , I'll be happy to word it differently ...

***NOT ENOUGH FOR THEM TO STOP SELLING***--is your very simple answer...

You have made it clear that you will never own one and are not going to embrace the opportunity to make it better then Mercury has so I don't get why you have to keep mentioning issues if you are not going to offer a correction to them (we have mutual friends that are working on opportunities for the V8 and they will get a pay day at the end). There is no need to be worrying about everyone else that is out boating on a consistent basis (Open markets prove product demand and what is considered to be good-not sideline judges). I have been on six fun runs in recent months and none of the front runner outboards were old technology-ZERO, NONE "half mile sprints to the nearest sandbar don't count-people that buy the four strokes actually run distance because you can cruise at 80 or 90 without wringing the motors neck". I used to be the guy taunting someone with a single 400R to run against my STV 300X stroker-That stopped when the V-8 was introduced -I might be able to keep up with them but I would be out of gas before a 300R needed to lift and a 450 will hand it to me.

Ask Randy if he has anyone asking him to rig a new liberator or checkmate with old technology Zero, None. Allison who has been the total four stroke fighter is seeing his boats being rigged with new stuff and can't deny the positive feedback. Jack Barsh is being asked how people can utilize the V8 on his boats and looking for set up--Its real, change is happening and performance outboards are revitalized.

Get your boat running so we can go play--Jasper is just around the corner. We can run the river with the new stuff and watch the old stuff run for 800 feet at a time on race days. Both are big fun but you have to attend to experience this stuff and make real judgements.

Joe

**FUJIMO** · 09-21-2020, 06:37 PM

...would love to show people, via video, what the center motor & gearcase goes through, on a triple engine offshore cat...its unbelievable... (2.4's/2.5's were the most fun to view.)

**Dave S** · 09-21-2020, 08:21 PM

Old day racing...….for everyone …..a hand built boat and a green top Merc...…..45 MPH.... safe funn…….Now 120 MPH boats with Idiots...… with $ bucks...…4. 450 HP motors to Show off in the ocean...…...With no common sense….. no life jackets......Loaded mouse trap waiting to Snap. The New stuff ? give it 5 years to see the weak points...…...A boat dealer shows the new stuff up front…..Walk in the back and see the Truth..... If he hasn't scrapped it yet.....V8 dohc 4 valves...….Going to be $$$ after the warrantee ……...JMO...….But it's all good...…...

**Chaz** · 09-21-2020, 08:32 PM

JP , I'm proud of you brother .. you made a desperate attempt to point a finger at the Mother Ship but at the last minute turned it into "driver error" ..

I can't argue with you about "driving style" .. however it's Mercury or their dealer network who are happy to sell Daddy War Bucks with all Dollars and no Sense to go along with Zero Experience , their top of the line motor . It would be like taking me to the expert ski slope ( I only seen snow once) giving me a shove , and saying have a nice trip ..

Same results .. and they have to live with the results. maybe the sales staff needs to spend a little more time with the buyer .. Just a thought.

And of course , they need to fix their prop shaft issue . I've never liked the idea of a flywheel whirring around at 7000 rpm a couple feet from the rear seat passenger(s) head. When we ran the Jr. Dragster we had to run a plate / bearing arrangement that put the flywheel and clutch in "double shear" . The early ones would break the crank snub off of either side .. and ya never knew what direction it was going ..
Out boards don't have the luxury of putting the prop shaft in double shear. They either needed to make it a larger diameter than the 3.0L fat shaft or make it out of a better material or ..... both. Using different internal parts , would have cost money in retooling . Better material would cost them as well . As mentioned above , it would dig into their 400% profit margin ....

And of course, Ray Charles could see that if a 300x or XS snapped off shafts at the parting line .. what did they think would happen with 1600 cc's more .. Duuuu

OK , I know , lets make a one piece shaft out of the same cheap **** .It outta hold and will barely cost us anything .. Nope, they break too

Joe , I believe deeply in our system of government and trade. But them ******* are just plain greedy pigs. I know your not blind , I'll stop trying to make you say it.

They already showed me everything I needed to know , when I "taught" one of em from racing , how I fixed the 3.0 and 3.2L blocks from being pulled out of square if you tried to torque the base studs all to 45 lbs instead of leaving the two under #6 back at the second pull of 30 lbs . The response , we are going to quit production of them in a couple of years anyway .. while his eyes were saying .. I wish I thought of that . Naturally I said , coming from a company man .. that's quite a compliment

Of course no one goes into a guys place that sells "new" custom boats and ask's to see if he could find a "used" motor(s) for his new boat .. You know how it works , the above .. never . Used boats , new motors ... all the time . Bad example ..

Rick George wanted to do a 15" Verado 400 . We made some strides , I got a check every Saturday , red label UPS . When he passed away , G-man said if it's in your way I'll come get it .. but that deal is done . If we owe you for anything since your last check .. I'll get ya paid. I thought the money might come out of my friends pocket .. so I said .. Nope, no more hours .. But yes, I'm a metal ***** I'll beat on any kind of metal .. for money . And I try to do a better job than what I know I'm going to get paid for . It come's down to pride in workmanship for me .

Our friend wanted to fix a 3.0L case that broke the pinion gear and sent the driveshaft up and stripped out the threads. I made a cartridge that held the top bearing and shim and was threaded internally . I would have needed to bore the case freeze the cartridge drop it in place with an interference fit , then weld the groove around the top .. Would it have worked , maybe , would it not be tight enough and shoot out the top and ruin another set of gears .. maybe . There were like a dozen that needed to be done . I didn't need a dozen people saying "he fixed it but it only lasted XXX weeks , months , years " ...

Now if they are cracked like S.P.'s was or the threads in the back are goobered up , thats easy ..

<---- (ice tea)

Once apon a time I went to the track with a brand new dragster chassis I'd put on a set of stands / saw horses . When they would come look I'd have Deb sell em fuel jugs racks , oil racks , fold down door shelfs with paper towel dispenser. Spark plug racks that would hold 8 to 32 plugs.. sometimes they would even buy the car.

I was young and hungry . Now , Deb is 67 , had a knee replacement last week . I'm not too far behind her in age . My neck and shoulder hurts driving her to the doctor a few miles away .. I don't need to race 200+ mph cars anymore. Every time I go boating , I gotta go to the chiropractor , get an epidural , go thru PT etc .. so it's not as fun as it once was ... I'll save up my strength .. actually , hearin about how fast these pork chops are has kinda re inspired me a bit .. I'mmm kinda wantin to see fer myself .. got N2O , cuz I never leave home without it ...