Mercury racing 360 hp NA v8

[FUJIMO]

[JPEROG]

Mark's character was larger then life "he was the show"-that was a bad loss for everyone.

Joe

[powerabout]

Mercury stopped building the S3000 F1 motors many years ago and before that stopped building cowl to gearcase motors. So, how do you have a F1 S3000 class with no new inventory. When I was building F1's years ago, do you know how hard it was to tell guys they were buying a new boat from us, but we would have to buy used parts and pieces to put together a S3000, mid and #4, not to easy. This is what forced the hand of of a revised class. Yes, times are tough, sponsors are thin, but there are guys out there wanting and willing to run true F1. Believe it or not, sponsorship is up a bunch thank you to Pres. Trump.

When I was apart of any F1 Teams, we were seeing a minimum of two powerheads (usually 4 or more in the trailer) used in a weekend, stuffing new pistons, rings, bearings and gaskets in each one after a race. Injectors being sent off. Then two races later, stuffing all of that in them again plus cranks and rods. The maintaining the S3000 is very expensive. For most of the F1 teams, the maintenance is over $100k a year, not including shipping them off ahead of time to have guys like Powers, HLedin, Anderson, and other great engine builders put there $10k-$15k tweaks on each powerhead. Better yet, scatter a few and the $200k range has been achieved by many teams.

The initial investment into the new 4 stroke will be costly, but if the maintaining part of them can be kept down, it will be more affordable in the long run. The last S3000 I bought new was $30k. Sent it off to be tweaked another $12k. So, we are at $42K in a 2-stroke that will require about $15k to $20k easily in a season (if it does not get scattered.) So when I look at the whole package at $55k, I see a big investment, but a better deal.

Hi Todd
I do applaud your momentum for this as we would love to see a large fleet.
I am struggling with your comment "true F1", do you mean its only f1 when you have the most powerful engine from all the options?
F2 with emission compliant and stock spec engine is doing well, could have been an F1 engine?
What makes a F2 engine, what makes a F1 engine?
But now we are getting a emission compliant stock spec F1 engine, how is that true f1?
It might be good for Europe but the USA?

regards

[FUJIMO]

Mark's character was larger then life "he was the show"-that was a bad loss for everyone.

Joe

...Mark did have some nice equipment, definately part of the big offshore scene of the 80's at the races. But nothing compared to Copelands entourage team & number & types of toys they transported to/from the races. From '81 on. He was the biggest.

[Spectre Powerboats]

Hi Todd
I do applaud your momentum for this as we would love to see a large fleet.
I am struggling with your comment "true F1", do you mean its only f1 when you have the most powerful engine from all the options?
F2 with emission compliant and stock spec engine is doing well, could have been an F1 engine?
What makes a F2 engine, what makes a F1 engine?
But now we are getting a emission compliant stock spec F1 engine, how is that true f1?
It might be good for Europe but the USA?

regards

Hi Powerabout, very good question and depending on who you ask, we all have different opinions on "True F1's." The USA does not have the financial support the F1H2O has. The USA boats use to be pretty comparable, but drivers like Shaun Torrente will tell you the F1H2O boats are much faster now a days. The S3000 F1 motors after tweaked are close and some are over 400 hp. The F2, 2.0 carb boats are closer to 200 hp. So, there is your big span in the two.

Right now the F1 Sport motor here in the USA is either the 200xs Optimax or a carb. 2.5. The hp to approx. around 250 for the both. The 2.5 carb is a little quicker off the beach and out of the turns, but the Opti pulls hard on the big end.

I and many others like the idea of the bigger spread in horsepower. Overseas the Opti is the F2 motor and soon the 360 APX will be the new F1 motor. I am not sure what the future holds, but the sport is doing much better than it use to be.

Racing is tough and when you have teams with unlimited spending, they are tough to beat. I like seeing a more even playing field and the better drivers winning, not the one with the most money. Unfortunately, this is racing 99% of the time "He who has the most money usually wins."

I think if we can get a few teams to adopt the 360 APX here in the USA, run them in a separate class, make sure they work good and the bugs are out of them. Maybe we can see the savings, better racing, and we can get back to F1 and F2 here in the USA.

I have raced in a lot of different areas of the motorsport world and I truthfully like sealed motor classes, because I have never been the guy with the most money. If I won, I was the better driver that day. If someone beat me, they were the better driver that day.

[Chaz]

I, I , I, was not feeling the luv ... with all the crickets ..

Then ....

​I think if we can get a few teams to adopt the 360 APX here in the USA, run them in a separate class,

And then again ...

Right now the F1 Sport motor here in the USA is either the 200xs Optimax or a carb. 2.5.

Wow , who'd a thunk turnin over the working apple cart would have been a bad idea
Exhibition class, what a wonderful idea. Pure genius .. that or the reality of killing a whole series and getting kicked to the curb with the stroke of a pen sunk in ...

So after looking down at the ground , it dawned on you , ya wasn't in Communist China or in a Sharia controlled Muzzy state .. but instead , in the good ole USA ..
and came to the conclusion a carb 2.5 isn't a S3000 after all ..

No sport in it . You ******* are way too easy .. like Woo Tang --->

[JPEROG]

...Mark did have some nice equipment, definately part of the big offshore scene of the 80's at the races. But nothing compared to Copelands entourage team & number & types of toys they transported to/from the races. From '81 on. He was the biggest.

I was referring to his personality. Nobody will beat Copeland for the "SHOW" when he brought multiple boats, helicopters, food, girls, toys, and everything else to the pit area.

We were in Saugatuck Mi. walking the docks during the race weekend (I was 10 years old and my brother was 6 at the time)-Mark lifted us into the boat and let my brother hit the starter then wrapped his hand over my brothers on the throttle and gave it a wack. He made a life long memory for both of us and we were fans to the end. Those two ran every race as if it were their last.

Joe

[powerabout]

Well said Todd

I think the issue is for a class, is it for tinkers or novices and if you can tinker will that attract professional teams who can out spend the weekend player?
Lots join classes because;
they can tinker and 2 strokes ideally suited to that
the cost barrier to get in is low and perhaps engines can last a season or more with modest rebuild costs
they are not competing with funded pro teams - you can make rules to prevent that, claimer engines etc.

Some might join a pro class to get the media knowing what they are in for?

Cheers

PS does the new Merc mean all new hulls for everyone..I can see boats needing to be as big as the old OMC F1 V8 hulls

[Chaz]

Since the mother ship has no intention of selling the acme 360 here in the world. Maybe you could import a few from China ..

[Spectre Powerboats]

I don't know how I missed this article from 15 days ago, but it was on FB today.
https://www.speedonthewater.com/excl...bZJFNkRdX8fr4o

[Spectre Powerboats]

[Da Bull]

After reading the article posted by Mr Spectre above I`m shocked that the crank, pistons and rods in the current 2.5 will only last four hours on the F-1 circuit. I wonder how long the V-8`s lasted?

[Spectre Powerboats]

Well said Todd

I think the issue is for a class, is it for tinkers or novices and if you can tinker will that attract professional teams who can out spend the weekend player?
Lots join classes because;
they can tinker and 2 strokes ideally suited to that
the cost barrier to get in is low and perhaps engines can last a season or more with modest rebuild costs
they are not competing with funded pro teams - you can make rules to prevent that, claimer engines etc.

Some might join a pro class to get the media knowing what they are in for?

Cheers

PS does the new Merc mean all new hulls for everyone..I can see boats needing to be as big as the old OMC F1 V8 hulls

Remember there usually is several classes at each race. Just like offshore, you have to pick the class your wallet can afford. F1 has usually been the wealthier or well sponsored class. F2 has had everything from the wealthiest to the weekend warriors and there are a lot of the weekend warriors who are just as good. F3 and F4 have been the guys who have either moved up from hydros, these classes fit their budget the best, or are on there way up the ladder. Still a very exciting class to watch.

From my understanding the S3000 will still be running until more R&D has been done with the 360. We have been running the number with other F1 Teams in the USA and after the initial investment, year two should be 1/3 the cost of a F1 with the S3000. That is huge. Thanks Todd

[Spectre Powerboats]

After reading the article posted by Mr Spectre above I`m shocked that the crank, pistons and rods in the current 2.5 will only last four hours on the F-1 circuit. I wonder how long the V-8`s lasted?

The Teams I have been a part of, pistons were 2 hours max. and the crank and rods were 4 hours max. That get expensive quickly. That is a good question on the V-8. I will ask Ben Robertson on that. He would know. Ben just told me the other day the V-8's in the 80's were $35k for a complete motor. I had no clue they were that much back then. Thanks, Todd

[powerabout]

The Teams I have been a part of, pistons were 2 hours max. and the crank and rods were 4 hours max. That get expensive quickly. That is a good question on the V-8. I will ask Ben Robertson on that. He would know. Ben just told me the other day the V-8's in the 80's were $35k for a complete motor. I had no clue they were that much back then. Thanks, Todd

The owners manual for the original 3.5 with light rods had the service schedule.
From memory it was better than the current 2.5, and I assume it got better with the heavy rods and the 3.0 engine even at 10k?
Ben would know.