Potential performance hull choice?

**curtis73** · 07-06-2020, 12:20 PM

I've been looking to replace my I/O with a fast outboard in the 70 mph range. I have looked at all kinds of Hydrostreams and Checkmates, but that means either really expensive re-coring in the case of the 'stream, or a surprising lack of bowriders in the case of the 'mates. I am no stranger to building, so my thought all along was to buy a good hull and make the topside what I want of it.

I will start this paragraph by saying that I DON'T like Bayliners. They are pretty cheaply made and the style is too swoopy and bloated for my taste. But, I just got a free 20' bayliner bowrider with no power. Not sure on year, but early 90s. Basically, my buddy bought it for $500 because he needed the 90-horse Merc that was on it. Typical wasted vinyl and rotten floor. He took his cheap power and gave the boat/trailer to me.

My plan would be to basically gut it to a bare hull and remove the cap - just cut it off from the rub rails up, then glass some gunwales, re-floor, walk-through console, and drop whatever power I can on it. My hope is that I could remove all the "bayliner flavor" out of it and replace it with my choices

But is the hull something I can work with? They look fairly quick, but looks can be deceiving. I'm willing to drop my speed goals a few mph. I'm also (maybe) up for my first hull modifications. (he says, knowing he might be biting off more than he can chew)

Discuss.

**TooStroked** · 07-06-2020, 02:13 PM

I'll give you bonus points for using Hydrostream, Checkmate and Bayliner all in the same sentence. They're all very, very different animals. Generally speaking, Hydrostreams are flat water boats and very fast, but there's the re-coring issue. Checkmates (and I used to sell them) are better built and made for rougher water. Bayliners are junk - period.

As for your desire to go 70 MPH, you'll need several variables to be correct. First, you'll need a proper design. Second, you'll need a proper layup. Third, you'll need proper rigging. Get any one of those three wrong - even with the other two right - and you'll be in serious trouble. Even though you're willing to completely tear down and rebuild a hull into what you want, I'd suggest that you'll be money ahead to buy a boat designed to go 70 MPH and modify the interior to your liking. The first thing you're going to find with a rebuilt Bayliner is that the hull was not designed to go fast, is built like sh__ and will handle like crap. Trust me, the last thing you want at 70 MPH is a hull that handles like crap.

Let's see what CUDA says.

**FMP** · 07-06-2020, 04:00 PM

Hehehe
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bnMklfHJ4fA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rG4XlQXgrQw

Cheap thrills,

If your 195 is the hull with the built in setback it'll run but you'll need HP. Put a pic up, maybe I'm thinking of a 20'. Some had low sides some high and 25" transom. They ran low mid 50 with 150hp, heavy. They will take years of big wave beatings.

**curtis73** · 07-06-2020, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by TooStroked

I'll give you bonus points for using Hydrostream, Checkmate and Bayliner all in the same sentence. They're all very, very different animals. Generally speaking, Hydrostreams are flat water boats and very fast, but there's the re-coring issue. Checkmates (and I used to sell them) are better built and made for rougher water. Bayliners are junk - period.

As for your desire to go 70 MPH, you'll need several variables to be correct. First, you'll need a priper design. Second, you'll need a proper layup. Third, you'll need proper rigging. Get any one of those three wrong - even with the other two right - and you'll be in serious trouble. Even though you're willing to completely tear down and rebuild a hull into what you want, I'd suggest that you'll be money ahead to buy a boat designed to go 70 MPH and modify the interior to your liking. The first thing you're going to find with a rebuilt Bayliner is that the hull was not designed to go fast, is built like sh__ and will handle like crap. Trust me, the last thing you want at 70 MPH is a hull that handles like crap.

Let's see what CUDA says.

I have never owned a Bayliner, but I have been in plenty and I agree. Junk.

I suppose your second paragraph is what I was seeking. I have searched now for almost three years and haven't found any hull that would suit. The only one that really seems to suit is a Donzi Sweet, but I'm not keen on turning a purpose-built runabout into a bowrider and expect it to retain its integrity.

I have a thread https://www.screamandfly.com/showthr...r-my-next-boat here that was my initial dive into y'all's brains in 2018. Lots of great suggestions, but I don't have $15k to spend on a boat. My last "fast" boat was a 383'd Baja that would do 60+ that I stripped bare and built an engine, new floor and motor stringers, and rebuilt the outdrive for $3500 all-in. But I/O isn't my jam. That thread I was looking for a performance hull that I could customize the topside and we went down a Checkmate and Hydrostream wormhole. Great boats, but I can't really afford the buy-in on a boat that might need a re-core soon.

Needs:
Outboard
Shallow-ish draft... at least not the 28" of my current I/O
Quick
Bowrider
Low freeboard
Doesn't suck in 8" chop.

The answer is probably Fish n Ski and make the front deck flip into seats like an Alumacraft, but so many of those are made so heavy because any noob can buy them at Bass Pro. I'd like to think I'm not an amateur after 40 years of going fast on the water.

And before you ask... the bowrider and low freeboard are not up for debate. Constant shore landings on rocky shores with elderly parents means A) easy walking access to the front, and step-off disembarking.

So... no hope for the Bayliner hull? How bad is it as-is?

**FMP** · 07-06-2020, 04:41 PM

Transom like so? The curved windshield makes you cross-eyed if you let it. Other than that if you change the dash layout to suit with new gauges the rest is fine , including the layup if the transom is solid. If your going to rebuild all structure you'll be doing a lot of hand laying just to match what's there but always room for improvement and extra. You could make something cool with it as a family runner.

**TooStroked** · 07-06-2020, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by curtis73

So... no hope for the Bayliner hull? How bad is it as-is?

Sadly, but very truthfully, Bayliners are just plain junk. Older Bayliners are just more fully rotted junk. And in case you're wondering, 30 years in the marina business gives me the right to say that.

**CUDA** · 07-06-2020, 05:45 PM

70 MPH Bailiner?

What's not to like...
https://global.bayliner.com/models/o...eries/ciera-8/

**FUJIMO** · 07-06-2020, 05:59 PM

https://youtu.be/bnMklfHJ4fA

**TooStroked** · 07-06-2020, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by FUJIMO

https://youtu.be/bnMklfHJ4fA

Not saying you can't get a Bayliner to go fast. The chances of one lasting more than a few minutes at that velocity in any kind of rough water are slim to none though.

**FUJIMO** · 07-06-2020, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by TooStroked

Not saying you can't get a Bayliner to go fast. The chances of one lasting more than a few minutes at that velocity in any kind of rough water are slim to none though.

...a few minutes?! are you crazy? ...you couldn't even plane off in the stuff...lol

**TooStroked** · 07-06-2020, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by curtis73

Needs:
Outboard
Shallow-ish draft... at least not the 28" of my current I/O
Quick
Bowrider
Low freeboard
Doesn't suck in 8" chop.

Have you considered a 21' Checkmate Starflite open bow? If you can find one, I think it checks about every box in your wish list.

**curtis73** · 07-06-2020, 06:47 PM

I have considered the Starflite and the Pulsare. One lake where I spend about two months out of the year has a hard limit on length of 20'. I used to wonder why until I worked there for a summer or two. Dock slots are 14' and long boats in the breeze just rip the docks apart. I repaired the dock enough times to have sympathy, so I keep them 20 or less. Truthfully, anything more than 18 is overkill on that lake

Also, starflite/starliner can be found as a bowrider, but not a step-out. The bow section doesn't go all the way to the front, meaning shore landings won't be much easier for dad's bad knees or mom's bad balance if they're still crawling over a "hood." The nice part about a "normal" bowrider is that the bow section goes all the way to the front, so you walk up, take one step up, and just step out.

**FMP** · 07-06-2020, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by FUJIMO

...a few minutes?! are you crazy? ...you couldn't even plane off in the stuff...lol

Nothing a proper rebuild with core wouldn't fix .

How much HP do you have, what motor are you going to use?

Better family ride than the ' mate, room and comfort.

**FUJIMO** · 07-06-2020, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by FMP

Nothing a proper rebuild with core wouldn't fix .

How much HP do you have, what motor are you going to use?

Better family ride than the ' mate, room and comfort.

...its not always about what the boat can take, but about what "you" can take...my old bones taught me this decades ago...