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Thread: Any car drag racers on board?
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09-24-2020, 03:31 PM #136I'd rather be competitive w/junk I built in my garage than win w/stuff I bought.
I refuse to allow common sense to interfere w/my boat buying decisions.
Checkmate 16' 140 Johnson
Hydrostream 17' Vector FrankenRude I
Laser 480 (?) 21' w/GT 200
Glastron Carlson Conquest w/XP 2.6
Glastron Carlson CVX 20 w/XP 2.6
24' Sonic w/twin 250 Johnsons
24' Sonic w/twin 250 HO Johnsons
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09-26-2020, 06:50 AM #137Scream And Fly VIP
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A Fox body is the cheapest way to go fast.....JMO. It already has a stout rear.......add gears. It has a four link........weld up the torque boxes and reinforce the upper mounts......then buy adjustable arms for it. Now you have a fully adjustable rear....but I didnt bring up the c-clips. I still have mine. But I dont race it down the track either. I'd need a full cage and am not doing that in a 'vert.
You can run 11's all day without breaking a sweat on the stock motor(not stock parts...stock block). The keys is in the heads on these cars. I swear by AFR's. I have 205's on mine, but that is because I have a supercharger on mine. Trick flow makes great heads as well, but you gotta run special pistons.....so, they were out for me. No other heads are gonna make the same power numbers as those two for windsors..........I scoured sources for a long time to find the best flowing heads........its those two. Take your time to match the cam and intake........you are gonna be close to the 11's in a 302. If you build a 347 or 363 you will be in the 11's. . The 363 has the advantage of unshrouding the intake valve and it makes more power because of it. The larger bore does it. A 351 with the same cam and displacement was put against a 302 based 363.........same heads and cam.........the 302 won...by like 17 horsepower
It will all fit under a stock...........be street legal...........run a/c if you want. You can still run the fuel injection etc. The 5.0 mustang paved the way for the stuff today. And parts are still like water. Upgrade the fuel injectors to 36 or 42 lb squirters, larger mass air sensor and you could still run the stock ecu with it reprogrammed. Or install a megasquirt(thats what i use)or a stinger and tune it at the track. The tune button is a great feature too.
So, the car doesnt have to sit on a trailer. You just nee to put it on the trailer for track day and drive it around town for the others.
There's too much stuff out nowadays to not be able to be consistent and reliable at the track(for the e.t's you want) and not be able to drive it anywhere you want around town.
If you havent guessed by now, fox bodies were my thing since high school in 1989(when I rode in one as a junior). I vowed that I would have one and I did.........and still do. I have had 5 fox mustangs to be truthful. I know that they are not the best thing since sliced bread. But the were kinda the modern '55 chevy.........making speed parts available for cheap, to a modern musclecar craze the began in the late 80's, and hasnt stopped till we have these stupid power levels on the street now. People dont think a 12 sec car is fast anymore. I remember getting my stock 5.0 into the 13's with nothing more than rockers and exhaust work......good times. And I still ran a mild rear gear set because I had to drive it to work for an hour sometimes(3.27's)...young with no money. Then I put the laughing gas on it and it screamed down into the 12's.........a 12,79 with a horrible 60' of 2.20 and a trap speed of 123. I never went to fix my 60'.....because I knew I was gonna break the tranny again if I got it to hook up. AN automatic car with a very similar setup as mine was running 12.20's or 12.30's I believe, because he had traction.
Restore a fox.........and make it run like stink...........and then go get your groceries with the air on!!!
FWIW, my combo is a dart block 302, stroked to 363 with a custom cam(.600 lift intake, .601 exhaust, 115 cl, and duration cant member offhand), afr 205's, 60lb injectors, 90mm tb, 1-3/4 headers, kennebell blower making 15 lbs boost, tko600, traction........nonexistant
.....all while keeping my a/c.Last edited by keefallan; 09-26-2020 at 06:57 AM.
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09-26-2020, 07:03 AM #138Scream And Fly VIP
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I do want to add that I have nothing against LS motors. I think they are a smallblock work of art. I think its the pinnacle of the pushrod motor. What those motors can flow?.........big block numbers in airflow. But again, its because the heads are amazing. But why stick one in a ford when the windsor or windsor based block can make crazy horsepower as well and be a little cheaper to boot? And without having to find special motor mounts, k members, transmission crossmembers......the list goes on.
The modern hemi is no slouch either.....its just been overshadowed by the gm motor.
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09-26-2020, 07:53 AM #139
Wow.
What a great post.
Thx for all the great info.
Dont think I would debate a single point you made.
I had a 12 second (12.60’s granny shifting a 4 speed) ‘68 440 6 pack Super Bee in the ‘80’s.
W/what I want through making a 440 Chrysler turn 7k when no one else was, makes me want to keep a Ford motor in s Ford car.
If I can build a dependable, 11 second Ford, (your the 2nd guy to tell me it’s easy) why do I need an LS?
Kinda like a BBC in a Pontiac.
I am a big fan of AFR heads too. Have ready Many, many stories.
Youll smile when I tell you that when I sold my Bee, my friends all freaked and said I’d regret it.
I told them for what I got for it, I could buy a Fox body, put a blue bottle in the trunk and would do EVERYTHING better than the Bee.
In my view, the Fox body replaced the ‘68 Camaro as the hot rod to have.
BTW, the first Ford guy to verify my plan (Yammer) on this board, brought his down to Norwalk a few yrs back and I watched him run a 5.22 at 123 w/a Windsor on 3 stages!
The next day he got it into the 5 teens!
Who needs an LS
Thx again for all the hard earned info.
I will down load and print it for future use
I'd rather be competitive w/junk I built in my garage than win w/stuff I bought.
I refuse to allow common sense to interfere w/my boat buying decisions.
Checkmate 16' 140 Johnson
Hydrostream 17' Vector FrankenRude I
Laser 480 (?) 21' w/GT 200
Glastron Carlson Conquest w/XP 2.6
Glastron Carlson CVX 20 w/XP 2.6
24' Sonic w/twin 250 Johnsons
24' Sonic w/twin 250 HO Johnsons
19' STV River Rocket w/FrankenRude II
Allison XR 2002 w/Frankenrude II
Hydrostream 18' V-King w/Frankenrude II
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keefallan liked this post
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09-26-2020, 08:10 AM #140
The ls swap thing became the thing to do because you can run 8’s for the cost of building a ford to run 10’s. The mustang chassis is sort of like the old 32-4 coupes for the current generation of racers. People stuff whatever power they have in there and go.
Chevy guys with deep pockets keep the chassis Chevy or gm based. It’s really the grass roots low buck go fast guys who started ls swapping fox bodies because when the craze started ten years ago you could buy fox rolling chassis for a few hundred bucks, an ls truck motor complete throttle body to pan for another few hundred bucks and a cheap e bay turbo kit for a grand, spend five hundred on fuel system and run 9’s. That’s why it all kicked off. Cheap and fast not built to lastHydrostream dreamin
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Instigator, keefallan liked this post
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09-26-2020, 08:17 AM #141
I’ve read the Ls stuff is getting more expensive because of this.
I remember the magazine stories of the Ls nationals where they ran Ls’s in everything/anything!
Keefallan, interesting tid bit about 302 based Vs Windsor based.
Had never heard that 17 hp, at that level, is huge!I'd rather be competitive w/junk I built in my garage than win w/stuff I bought.
I refuse to allow common sense to interfere w/my boat buying decisions.
Checkmate 16' 140 Johnson
Hydrostream 17' Vector FrankenRude I
Laser 480 (?) 21' w/GT 200
Glastron Carlson Conquest w/XP 2.6
Glastron Carlson CVX 20 w/XP 2.6
24' Sonic w/twin 250 Johnsons
24' Sonic w/twin 250 HO Johnsons
19' STV River Rocket w/FrankenRude II
Allison XR 2002 w/Frankenrude II
Hydrostream 18' V-King w/Frankenrude II
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09-26-2020, 09:13 AM #142
You can’t buy low mile junk yard ls motors for five hundred bucks because they no longer exist. These motors are old now and need to be rebuilt so the very low dollar builds are far and few between. When it all started you could buy low mile 5.3’s all day for five hundred bucks. No one wanted them and the yards were filled with them. Many got melted down. Those days are gone
fox coyote is cool. Ls swaps are not so much cool now although still practical and cost effective just not ridiculously lower cost. You can make anything fast with enough money.Hydrostream dreamin
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keefallan liked this post
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09-26-2020, 02:57 PM #143Scream And Fly VIP
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Actually, I was impressed as well. I was laughing when I saw it because(luckilly) I had just made the plunge to do the big bore 302(the 363 motor) and I had no idea.........like,"Wow! I backed into that one". Come to find out the large bore unshrouds the outside edge of the 2.08 valve(against the bore) and has less turbulence. And I could be off a little on that number........its been a year now since I saw that video. But I do know that it was in double digits........not 3,4, or even 7 hp.....same cubic inches but different bore sizes.
Feel free to PM if you have any questions.
Keith
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09-28-2020, 02:39 PM #144
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09-28-2020, 03:32 PM #145Scream And Fly VIP
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The stroker kits are amazing for those little motors. I have a friend who runs a very similar setup to mine except that he designed and installed an intercooler for his motor......same style blower and he has dipped his car into the 8's
I know I have a 10 second car.....well the potentail for it. I am just not gonna put a set slicks on my ride and make me a pretzel. My motor is making on a low estimate 650 hp. Oh yeah, I did forget to mention that I am spraying methanol/water injection to keep things cool with the supercharger. I bring it in above 6lbs boost. Since the supercharger makes full boost by like 2000 rpm, I dont have to progressively inject water/alky mix. I havent worked out the afr's with it though. So, I have it unhooked at the moment and timing pulled out.
I remember when I sent my tune to my friend(the guy who runs 8's), and he sent it back to me and said........." I pulled out probably a hundred", and he was just taking timing out. It was running fine before then...no issues. But since I havent got it tuned above atmospheric pressures yet(boost levels), I have left it alone. Traction is still non existent with 100hp pulled out.
If you build a 347(with a stock block), a matched cam, afr 185's (they do move enough air for n/a apps) and a good intake........you will be making 450hp. I have seen the builds.......its not hard.........off the shelf parts.....it may even push up towards the 500 mark...........out of a 347ci motor, normally aspirated, and very streetable to boot. Actually, my son(who has built one for himself) and I saw a show where the motor made over 500 with the parts that I am describing. LS's are great. But a windsor can make huge power now and be very streetable. But, the block is not good for more than 450-500.....they are known for breaking. And a stud girdle just means they are all gonna break at the same time(mains). The blocks split in half.........total carnage.....the entry level Dart block.......add all the power you want to make. But you will drop 1800-2000 for the block to start off with.
Go for it!!!Last edited by keefallan; 09-28-2020 at 03:35 PM.
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09-28-2020, 10:35 PM #146Screaming And Flying!
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Seen them let go in the 400 range, need a Ford Motorsport block.
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09-29-2020, 06:26 AM #147
That was my prob with my 302 fox. Enough kit for 300hp of nitrous and not enough block for half of that haha
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09-29-2020, 09:30 AM #148Screaming And Flying!
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Wicked little cars, you can fun yourself into a book of trouble.
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09-29-2020, 09:39 AM #149
I had a few Fox bodies, all the usual mods of the time made for fun straight line 13 second wonders. That was quick in their day. Back then if I was spending money for speed it was all about cubic inches and the best cylinder heads I could find. BBC mostly
Hydrostream dreamin
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09-29-2020, 09:42 AM #150
Tko 600 with a pro5.0 shifter makes them a real hoot.
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