Acceleration numbers between all the Mercury Racing motors

[Merc 2.5]

Well I know nothing bout these new motors , but for the huge price difference and 100 hp. There's gotta b sum advantage for the 400. I hope u get it dialed in where u like it.

[WILDMAN]

The advantage is for Mercury's bank account. How could a supercharged V8 (450R) cost $25k more than the 300R?

Well I know nothing bout these new motors , but for the huge price difference and 100 hp. There's gotta b sum advantage for the 400. I hope u get it dialed in where u like it.

[Lake X Kid]

The advantage is for Mercury's bank account. How could a supercharged V8 (450R) cost $25k more than the 300R?

Is the steep price difference, because Mercury is trying to recoup their cost,
in the R&D for the 450R Supercharged V8 ?

[nitro_rat]

Is the steep price difference, because Mercury is trying to recoup their cost,
in the R&D for the 450R Supercharged V8 ?

I would bet ALL the R&D was for the supercharged 450R and it was just detuned to make the lower ratings...

[Lake X Kid]

In looking at the graph numbers, is the engine's optimum long-life going to be attained,
at operating on or before Peak Torque?

It seems one can cruise at sufficient speeds at 4K to 4.5K RPM, and not overburden the engine.

If one runs the engine at the intersection of the torque and horsepower curves, then at the higher revs, it seems the motor will be straining to stay at that rev for a long duration of time.
Therefore not conducive to the engine's long-life.

[motuman]

I had about 5 props on it and one of them was a 23P and of course it did accelerate quicker but was hard on the limiter. The 24P Bravo FS will turn 6250 - 6450 depending on the water conditions, engine height and trim. Engine runs fine, idles OK (but sometimes I smell gas from the exhaust when I restart it but only when it is hot. Otherwise no smell idling. It accelerates OK but not even close to the 400R and I was hoping it would feel as strong. Top speed is nothing to brag about and the engine has about 27 hours on it.

Have you tried any 5 blade propellers?

My dealer says they have upgraded a lot of boats from a 300xs to 300R and states none of the owners were really impressed with the 300R until they figured out the prop situation. I haven't talked to them in a about a year on this subject, but I think they had the most success with 5 blade props. As you can see Wildman had great results with the Hill Signature 400 Cleaver. I think the lowest pitch in the Hill is 26P though, which is probably too tall for your boat.

Wildmand is the man when it comes to Checkmate set-up...sounds like he tested all combos when he was selling Checkmates....and obviously knows the 300R. Have you asked him for a suggestions and/or possibly getting a prop from him?

FYI - I'm having my own set-up issues on a 2400BRX with a 300XS. It like the engine deep and doesn't run quite right with the (Wildman recommended) Trophy Plus 24P. I think its my prop though. I bought my boat used and can see repair markings on the Trophy Plus...so I think the PO tried to "improve" the prop and I need to scrap it and start fresh. But with all 3 props I have, the 2400BRX jumps on plane quick with the 300xs.

Good luck! Hope you get the 300r dialed in, and look forward to hearing your results.

PS - If you are not making top speed, acceleration is soft, and no error codes....maybe need to get that motor on a good prop dyno?

[engineermike]

I can echo what motuman posted, which really has much to do with the HDSM case. When I first converted to a 400r and ran it with several bravo1 props I thought I had made a horrible and expensive mistake. But once I started running 5-blades like max5, Maximus, and p5x the performance was worlds better. I’ve never tried one of the 5-blade cleavers even.

[Pulsare2400]

Have you tried any 5 blade propellers?

My dealer says they have upgraded a lot of boats from a 300xs to 300R and states none of the owners were really impressed with the 300R until they figured out the prop situation. I haven't talked to them in a about a year on this subject, but I think they had the most success with 5 blade props. As you can see Wildman had great results with the Hill Signature 400 Cleaver. I think the lowest pitch in the Hill is 26P though, which is probably too tall for your boat.

Wildmand is the man when it comes to Checkmate set-up...sounds like he tested all combos when he was selling Checkmates....and obviously knows the 300R. Have you asked him for a suggestions and/or possibly getting a prop from him?

FYI - I'm having my own set-up issues on a 2400BRX with a 300XS. It like the engine deep and doesn't run quite right with the (Wildman recommended) Trophy Plus 24P. I think its my prop though. I bought my boat used and can see repair markings on the Trophy Plus...so I think the PO tried to "improve" the prop and I need to scrap it and start fresh. But with all 3 props I have, the 2400BRX jumps on plane quick with the 300xs.

Good luck! Hope you get the 300r dialed in, and look forward to hearing your results.

PS - If you are not making top speed, acceleration is soft, and no error codes....maybe need to get that motor on a good prop dyno?

The 23P prop was a 5 blade Hill Pleasure prop (that is not a high performance prop) and 23P is the largest pitch they make. It probably accelerated the best of the 5 props I tried but was on the rev limiter, had 17% slip (the Bravo 24P FS had less than 9% slip) but that Hill prop was also too small in diameter. All of the 5 props that had less than 15" diameter did not have great top end. Wildman is the expert but he has never had a 300R on a Checkmate. I also have a Torquemaster and the fast 300R boats have Sportmaster LU and run them high with surfacing props. I think the motor is soft as well and my friend with a 2400 BRX and the same prop and 300R engine claims his accelerates so quick he can't believe it. My Torquemaster also likes to run deep, around 4" below. WOT is a slow 72 - 73 mph. The 400R that I test drove had a Sportmaster LU with a 23p Bravo FS and it accelerated much faster than mine. Mine comes up on the plane easily with 1/3 throttle, it is just a long way from the 400R that I test drove but I guess that 100 additional HP would cure what I am feeling?

[Chaz]

It's plain to see that the AMAZING 300R starts off with 75 more ft/lbs of torque and then goes off the chart ... and settles in at 50ft/lbs at that all important 5252 crossover point.
Horsepower breaks all the rules .. starts off at almost 100 more than a lowly 300x and quickly goes off the chart .. never to be seen again ...
If yours isn't as fast as the AMAZING numbers represent, your gonna just have to quit being so cheap, and buy a closet full of $5000.00 propellers ...


***** the graph below, is for sales personal only. As your results may vary *****

WILDMAN

The advantage is for Mercury's bank account. How could a supercharged V8 (450R) cost $25k more than the 300R?

They probably got the crazy idea that people who buy 450's are gonna run the dog **** out of them with only minutes to a few hours on them. Hello WTY, yea, sumptin happened to my brand new 450. Your gonna hafta put a new one on, today. I have my Aunt Lulabell and Uncle Stachmo flying in tomorrow for a ride in the boat ..
It's just a wild guess, of course. How else could they justify the expense ..

Sell it once .. replace it twice ..
If I'm wrong about Mercury knowing their customer base .. I'm sure someone will explain it to me ..

[Pulsare2400]

Yes that is excellent material for most salesmen. Most of them would even believe it themselves! I did call Mercury Racing and they simply told me that 72 - 73 mph is close to what a 300XS would run on that boat, and I have the same lower unit as the 300XS (on the 2400 Pulsare) and he said you might have a couple more HP so I would expect it to be very similar. He then did go on to say the fast speeds with the 300R's are with the new Sportmaster, running at high heights and large diameter 5 blade CNC props that stay hooked up. Wildman did say on his Liberators that the 300XS could not turn those 5 blade CNC props to the same rpm, thus making the 300R faster.

[Chaz]

I get it now , put the wrong prop on the 2 stroke , and the four stroke is faster. Sounds fair to me ..

BTW .. I had a set of 5 blade 15x34 Hill signatures 10 years ago . They were a little tight. It could have pulled a set of 32's a little easier. Extra blade is worth two to three inchs of pitch. So they took them back and sent a set of 14.5 x 32's . I didn't want 14.5's .. but thats what I got. Ron said, measure em better , they are 14.625's .. I beat on em and all I could get out of was an extra 1/8th inch. They ran 400 rpm different from left to right. had em tuned up , same thing. Then I measured the cord length of the blade's .. 3/8ths difference , sanded the "long ones" back, put an edge back on it .. hey, guess what .. they ran the exact same ..

I sent Quindazzi a deposit on a set of 15x34 four blade wheels when he first started buckshot. He sent my money back, said they were having some problems with the left and would call me when they got it figured out. I reckon they are still working on it .. cuz I haven't heard back ... that's OK , I found another guy in California who builds state of the art, over the hub cleavers for less than half the money of a "gucci" Hill wheel ..

*** side note***
If the truth is too much for some to bear ... I'll ... ahh .. no I won't .

[motuman]

The 23P prop was a 5 blade Hill Pleasure prop (that is not a high performance prop) and 23P is the largest pitch they make. It probably accelerated the best of the 5 props I tried but was on the rev limiter, had 17% slip (the Bravo 24P FS had less than 9% slip) but that Hill prop was also too small in diameter. All of the 5 props that had less than 15" diameter did not have great top end. Wildman is the expert but he has never had a 300R on a Checkmate. I also have a Torquemaster and the fast 300R boats have Sportmaster LU and run them high with surfacing props. I think the motor is soft as well and my friend with a 2400 BRX and the same prop and 300R engine claims his accelerates so quick he can't believe it. My Torquemaster also likes to run deep, around 4" below. WOT is a slow 72 - 73 mph. The 400R that I test drove had a Sportmaster LU with a 23p Bravo FS and it accelerated much faster than mine. Mine comes up on the plane easily with 1/3 throttle, it is just a long way from the 400R that I test drove but I guess that 100 additional HP would cure what I am feeling?

How is it going Pulsare2400? Just circling back to an old topic to see if you ever got the motor/prop set-up sorted to your satisfaction?

BTW - your friend with a 2400 BRX and the same prop and 300, who's boat "accelerates so quick he can't believe it"....what kind of top end speed is he seeing?

I have a 2400BRX also, so interested in the 300r vs 400r debate.

FWIW - Seems like the Check 2400's like to run with the engine deep (per Wildman), and the prop will blow out in sharp corners if you run the motor too high...always wondered if a notched transom would have allowed the toquemasters to run a little higher and pick up a couple MPH on the top end?

[Pulsare2400]

My friend lives in Michigan and last Sept. his trailer tongue broke while he was towing the Pulsare to the lake, so he has not run it since then. He should try it soon, and will try to get past the violent chine walk around 70 mph, that limits the speed. I am waiting for him to get it sorted out and another member in FL that has run 70.9 mph with a 23 ProMax prop in bad conditions and is hoping to get about 74 mph with that prop. His is a non liner boat so it is lighter than mine.
So I will wait until both of them are sorted out before I decide if mine has to go to the dealer because it might not be getting full throttle or has other issues. It runs OK, but I usually just idle around or cruise around 30 mph. I was on a 22ft Tri-toon with a 200 HP V8 yesterday and it's acceleration did not feel that much slower than mine. When I idle, the exhaust just smells too rich to me but I have never been in another boat with a 300R so I can't tell if that is normal. The new 2400 Checkmates have notched transoms from what I could see. Caldwell claimed they got about mid 70's with a 300R but would report on it more fully later.

[motuman]

My friend lives in Michigan and last Sept. his trailer tongue broke while he was towing the Pulsare to the lake, so he has not run it since then. He should try it soon, and will try to get past the violent chine walk around 70 mph, that limits the speed. I am waiting for him to get it sorted out and another member in FL that has run 70.9 mph with a 23 ProMax prop in bad conditions and is hoping to get about 74 mph with that prop. His is a non liner boat so it is lighter than mine.
So I will wait until both of them are sorted out before I decide if mine has to go to the dealer because it might not be getting full throttle or has other issues. It runs OK, but I usually just idle around or cruise around 30 mph. I was on a 22ft Tri-toon with a 200 HP V8 yesterday and it's acceleration did not feel that much slower than mine. When I idle, the exhaust just smells too rich to me but I have never been in another boat with a 300R so I can't tell if that is normal. The new 2400 Checkmates have notched transoms from what I could see. Caldwell claimed they got about mid 70's with a 300R but would report on it more fully later.

Thanks for the update and good luck with your engine! Sounds like Mercury needs to make this right for you....bummer to pay for a new motor and not be happy. It were mine I'd be tempted check compression, have someone with 300r experience read the plugs, and maybe even pay for a dyno run to see if the numbers are close to the "off the chart" curve. (different dyno's probably apples to oranges, I know)

FWIW - I wonder what the "built-in" set back is on the 300r engine mount is? I remember when the 400r was released and the first person with a 2400BRX went thru set-up. He switched from a 300 Verado (i think) to a 400r and kept the same 10" set back bracket that came with the 300. He went through all kind of prop's and motor heights etc, but had problems with chine walk and couldn't get boat dialed-in. In the end the solution was switching from a 10" set-back to a 4" set-back, to make up for the set-back "built into" the 400r. After that it was fairly smooth sailing, I think his best speed ever (with LOT's of tweaking and light load) may have been around 83, but call it 80 consistent in everyday conditions.


Still interested to here what a property dialed 300r will run on a 2400BRX.

[Pulsare2400]

The mid section is the same set back as the 300XS. Only if you get the Advanced Mid section that comes with the 300 Verado do you have the built in set back of around 4.5" from what I have read. I have read what Hayabusa did for set back and props on with his 400R. I really do not know if my engine is soft (it sure feels like it to me) and until the other two guys get theirs running well, I won't really know. The FL 2400 is a non liner boat so it should be at least 2 - 4 mph faster than my 2020 boat with a liner. So if he gets it to 74 mph on the rev limiter (best so far was 70.9 mph under less than ideal conditions), then he has to change props and try again, since if he ran 74 or maybe 75 it would only be perhaps 3 mph faster than me doing 72 - 73 mph and the weight of the boats could do that. Same with my friends boat, it is a BRX but otherwise the same motor and prop. A 24 Bravo FS will not run more than about 74 mph on the limiter, and then the ECM is already pulling power. So if he manages to do that, he also has to change props perhaps to a 25 FS and try again and only then will I know if mine is really soft. Caldwell Marine has been testing the new Checkmates with different props and engine heights and claims they have run mid 70's whatever that means (74 - 76???). Again, I do not know what the Caldwell 2400 weighs, and it has a notched transom and a few other tweaks and is all composite with no wood. So he should be a bit faster than mine. He is supposed to update the website with the exact prop and speeds.
Wildman used about 17" of set back with the 300XS and said that was worth a few mph over 10" of set back. I am on the verge of porpoising and under 45 mph I always run with full negative trim, trying to get the bow down and keep it from porpoising, so I really do not want more set back even if it was 3 mph faster at WOT.