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Thread: Vinylester?
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05-30-2020, 07:03 AM #1
Vinylester?
Viking restoration project starting and I’m considering materials. I have read that polyester sometimes doesn’t bond well to old polyester and this hull has been sitting stripped of core for ten years. I don’t think I want to use epoxy so what about vinylester? Is this a better option or should I just run with polyester? Balsa core, wood stringer/knees and new wood transom is the plan as of now. The entire boat needs a complete re-gel so this is my main reason for avoiding epoxy. I’m going to plug all holes and dash pockets and start with a clean slate for modern rigging.
Hydrostream dreamin
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05-30-2020, 07:15 AM #2Screaming And Flying!
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I always use the vinyl. Just a higher grade of resin over the gp polys. Use some 1.5 oz matt or some pre made putty to set the balsa.
My King is all vinyl and 1708 which has held up great since it's rebuild. You must follow the hardener ratio more closely and keep it above 1.5% at a minimum. 2% is ideal. Over that and you have a very short gel time. Also a special catalyst is needed for vinyl.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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05-30-2020, 08:38 AM #3
Right on! Now is the supplier critical to quality? I found a well priced supplier through my old body work contacts for polyester Im unsure if they sell vinylester but I will ask on Monday. It sounds like the vinyl/poly differences is sort of a paint thinner/lacquer thinner thing where refined quality is the only difference am I reading that right?
Hydrostream dreamin
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05-30-2020, 09:17 AM #4Screaming And Flying!
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More than that. Vinyl is a hybrid resin with some epoxy and some poly properties. It will resist water and stress cracking better. Adhesion is close to epoxy. Here in fla I use fgci Fiberglass coatings INC. out of St. Pete fl. Composites one is also good.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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05-30-2020, 10:13 AM #5
Sounds like the ideal solution! Is there any special considerations using gel coat over vinylester or just coat it?
Hydrostream dreamin
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05-30-2020, 11:07 AM #6
Any issues using a 5/8" balsa core for the V-king? it came with it so makes sense to use it
Hydrostream dreamin
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06-02-2020, 08:26 AM #76000 RPM
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Buying a mid grade name brand vinyl ester is worth the little extra money, for example to get full technical support and specs on it (if that’s important to you). Keep in mind the limited shelf life of pre-promoted vinylester, it can be as short as 6 months so ensure your project and shop setup are all good to go before you buy it. I would not suggest buying un-promoted.
I’m not a Hydrostream guy but 5/8” sounds hella thick for a boat of that type - 3/8 is probably fine.
Matt
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06-02-2020, 08:39 AM #8
Since last posting I did a little digging on the core and the factory comp hulls with no stringers had the 5/8" balsa if what i read is correct. The only reason I want to use it is because it came with the project and its all cut to fit so if theres no downside? I will use it but if there is any bad aspects ( I cant think of any ) to using the 5/8" then i will gladly buy a different size. I do have aspirations for a composite core because of anti rot aspects although I tend to care for my things quite well and balsa is stronger so that might not be nec.
As for the vinyl ester shelf life I have read about that too and I would be buying in smaller quantities to manage waste. I would like to plow right through the lay up but time is not always in my control for such a big project. I would start today if I could Im really excited to put one of these together better than newHydrostream dreamin
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06-02-2020, 09:15 AM #9Screaming And Flying!
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5/8'' is fine. Sand/grind and wipe clean with styrene before gelling. Styrene melts the resins surface a little and will give the best bond. Use a mat or some special bedding compound. Vinyl is not the best for use as a core bedding material. Something about thin film cure not being good enough to bond.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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06-02-2020, 09:33 AM #10
So the best bet is to bed the core with something other than vinyl ester? The reason I am drawn to vinyl ester is its better bonding properties and Im looking for ease of flow, water resistance and I want to gel coat after which rules out epoxy. I would have zero problem using polyester if it will bond up well. The styrene tip is solid thanks
Hydrostream dreamin
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06-02-2020, 09:56 AM #11Screaming And Flying!
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I have used vinyl for a bedding putty. BUT!!!!! I made sure the mix was catalyized at the 2% rate and made sure that the core had a 1/8'' space filled with the putty. This was on the deck of a large boat so weight was not a concern. We made thin strips of foam as spacers to ensure that there was a 1/8'' space under the core. Myself I would use 1.5oz matt and weights on the core. This is how I cored my V-KIng using vinyl years ago. No problems. Wet glass out good and soak the foam/balsa surface too.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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06-02-2020, 11:08 AM #12
This sounds great! Do you think a wetted 1.5oz mat will have enough resin to rise through the seams of the 5/8" core? Would it be wise to wet the mat, lay the core, then wet out the balsa all in one go? This would take what 4 guys to do so it wouldnt cure on me halfway through LOL or should I do small sections of this process at a time?
Hydrostream dreamin
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06-02-2020, 11:32 AM #13Screaming And Flying!
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Do a smaller section to see how it goes. One guy sets and one guy wets, both have already placed the 1.5 oz glass and rolled it out. If everything is prestaged, you should have no problems since at 70 deg you should have 20 min gell time at least.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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06-02-2020, 12:22 PM #14
Testing first is what I will do so I can see what happens. Great info thanks, now all I need is to time this out and get glassing. I'll start a build thread when I get ready to go
Hydrostream dreamin
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06-02-2020, 01:11 PM #15Screaming And Flying!
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Balsa sucks up a lot of resin, don't be afraid to slather it on.....Wet under the mat, and over the mat, Roll air out and wet again.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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