BRP just discontinued all E-TECS

[Forkin' Crazy]

Boeing??? Ever heard of the 737 that's been grounded for more than a year. Boat companies are arguably a beneficiary of covid. Cant travel, can't go out to eat, can't go to Disney. Hey baby, let's get a boat for the family.

You want me to add some companies laying off people and closing their doors that didn't build problematic products? Because I can. Now many do you want? Stop picking the fly $hit out of the pepper.

You really can't understand what I am saying??? Really???

[Forkin' Crazy]

It was not a marketing problem. It was a product problem.

Firstly, Yamaha, which was the world leader in 2-stroke technology, went 4-stroke long ago. Mercury did so more recently despite having a DFI 2-stroke that was at least as good and in some respects, e.g. fuel efficiency, better than the BRP product. Those companies could not convince people to buy DFI 2-strokes either.

Do you know what "marketing" is?

Care to back that up? If so, minimal at best. And Merc and Yami caved to the "green" trend even though DFI had as good if not better emissions and fewer parts.

Second, Evinrudes were expensive and rather mediocre with no meaningful advantage over competing products, e.g. they were at least as heavy, ugly and complicated as the current crop of 4-strokes, and, as you can see in this thread, they were not particularly trouble free either. Add to that the 2-stroke stigma, and you have a product that is very hard for someone to want to buy, and therefore very hard for BRP to sell.

Oh, so 4 strokes are cheap? And they are not heavy? Trouble free? The new Mercs are good looking? LMFAO!!! Now we have left mechanics and are talking esthetics, which is PURELY of one's opinion.

That is where marketing comes in. You have to break the stigma.

Now, pretty much done here. No one I have ever seen can get anywhere arguing with you and your novelistic posts.

Good day.

[FMP]

That's funny

[DangerNewb]

You want me to add some companies laying off people and closing their doors that didn't build problematic products? Because I can. Now many do you want? Stop picking the fly $hit out of the pepper.

You really can't understand what I am saying??? Really???

Forkin, I understand exactly what you're saying. I manage other peoples' money for a living so I study this stuff daily. A lot of companies are struggling mightily. But, Boeing's problems started long before covid. They screwed up beyond understanding. Hey, let's design a system that forces the plane into a nosedive based on ONE sensor. Should have been redundancy and it shouldn't have been so hard to disengage the system and regain control. Pilot had to use a hand crank to adjust the aileron if they disengage the system. At least that's what a Delta pilot told me. Like it's 1951 or something.

I get it, my income is down. But boat sales are doing fine. Folks who can afford to are going to try to have some fun and boating with your family and/or close friends is one option still viable.

IF your work or business is suffering, I'm sorry. But don't extrapolate that to every other business. Some are doing just fine. That's my point, nothing more.

[Instigator]

Bull****!

They had no choice.
The EPA thought the OB biz was like automotive w/deep pockets so they could rape em all they wanted.

They went DI or didn’t sell motors.

Didnt dawn on me that you’d be one of the ones throwing dirt on their casket.

My buddy MiamiDave and I used to laugh about you all the time when I lived in Fla.
Mr Yamaha.
Thry did everything perfect.
Including being sued by OMC for patent infringement when they first went to market.
Yeah, let’s just copy someone else to get started.

Merc and OMC figured out what worked by blowing **** up.
And racing.
What records did Yammi set?
Classes dominated?

Crickets? Present.

Yammi copied OMC, Honda turned car motors on end and screwed on s propeller.

Then they sent a bazillion dollars to their lobbyists to attack 2 strokes.

Suzuki started w/bikes and cars then got into OBs.
Honda started w/bikes and cars then got into OBs.
Yammmmihah started w/bikes then copied someone else to get into OBs.

On the other hand, here in America, Merc got into OBs to be into OBs.
Johnson and Evinrude got into OBs..., to be into OBs.

We always laughed that we were going to post pics of rows of stacks of dead HPDI’s down there.

I worked on a neighbors 250 4 stroke that was 5 yrs old and corroded a hole through the top of the block and was spraying the bottom of the flywheel! Wonder what he paid for that 5 yrs earlier?

Several doors down from him was a guy w/a 70 4 stroke of same age.
Dealer maintained till warranty expired then by owner.
He logged it in a note book.
He died of cancer and I sold the boat for his widow.

It threw a rod on the sea trial!!

Yamaha had great marketing and and dealer network.
Want to know how many rotted off tiller alarms I’ve seen on those damn things?
They were every where.

Their castings were so thin you could see through them and I think we’re made from recycled Budweiser cans.

Keep drinking the kool aid dude.

Wanna see some real Yammi?

Ill meet you in Miami and you will be weeping when we drop you off at the airport.

It is absolutely true. That is why Yamaha could wait.
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[engineermike]

They weren't forced. They (and Mercury) rushed them to market to get the credits.

They could have chosen to wait like Yamaha did.<object id="__symantecPKIClientMessenger" data-supports-flavor-configuration="true" data-extension-version="1.0.1" style="display: none;"></object>__PRESENT

I dunno man, the yamaha hpdi 2-strokes should have been better for a couple of reasons but they pretty much sucked.

[Forkin' Crazy]

Forkin, I understand exactly what you're saying. I manage other peoples' money for a living so I study this stuff daily. A lot of companies are struggling mightily. But, Boeing's problems started long before covid. They screwed up beyond understanding. Hey, let's design a system that forces the plane into a nosedive based on ONE sensor. Should have been redundancy and it shouldn't have been so hard to disengage the system and regain control. Pilot had to use a hand crank to adjust the aileron if they disengage the system. At least that's what a Delta pilot told me. Like it's 1951 or something.

I get it, my income is down. But boat sales are doing fine. Folks who can afford to are going to try to have some fun and boating with your family and/or close friends is one option still viable.

IF your work or business is suffering, I'm sorry. But don't extrapolate that to every other business. Some are doing just fine. That's my point, nothing more.

NO YOU DON'T!!!

Will you get off of the Boeing bull$hit? Did you not read .... Comprehend my last post???

"My income is down. But boat sales are doing fine."

That tells me you don't know a DAMN thing about boat sales, economics, the stock market, trends, etc!!!

Boats are a LUXURY!!! NOT a NECESSITY!

Dictionary dot com might help with that.

[Rigaud]

Its a scam brp has more money than just a fing etec motor ,do you all know what they are into and what they actually make and build? its like bill gates and 600 mil aint chit to them.

Recreational only from BRP

[FMP]

I must be slippin , swore we more posts here

[Chaz]

Well, they weren’t the first to tank it...

Built by a Norwegian. Made bankrupt by Americans. The Canadians tried to fix it, but gave up after 20 years. They should get credit for trying.

Markey .. Where was the Evinrude plant in Norway .. ?

Evinrude was an AMERICAN , just as I am . I was born here , but my great Grandmother had the courage to come here and start a family in the 1890's . She was an AMERICAN too. We have a whole segment of our population that are pure left~tard. They don't respect our laws , our rights , our flag or our language . Yes we are stuck with them , but they are also AMERICANS .. !

Come to think of it , if it wasn't for AMERICANS you would be an outpost of the Reich and speaking German right about now .. don't take my word for it , ask your elders.

When Mr. Evinrude was alive , he worked hard to get where he was. We call it "living the AMERICAN dream" . Clemick and Evinrude , ELTO , a few other tries went under early on . Ralph was handed a way to prosper . Like his father he made and lost and remade a personal fortune . The company suffered thru a lot of bad choices along the way .
When

J. Armand Bombardier ran

BRP ( he was North American ) he oversaw all aspect's of the company. His kid and then son-in-law thought they wanted to be in charge after the old man passed.
They were already rich , putting their life into the company was more than likely in the way of acting rich so they took their eye off the ball .
With Jets and trains destined to be sold thru-out the world , the hired in bosses bought some company's for pennies on the dollar . With no real skin in the game to see them become successful , they just let them run on until they became a problem. Look at their line-up . Does it look like they are banking on it to put food on the table , or just letting a bunch of new wave design engineers that have no practical knowledge of repairing or using their products in day to day use run the show ? The result , they build a lot of expensive stuff that not many people really want . I would expect to see more of their line - up dropped down the road when they happen to notice haw bad they leak money .
Although we don't believe in monarchy's . We call it the "Strong King - Weak Prince"
syndrome. To them , they say .. it's only outboard motors , who cares ? We own the patents , technology and tooling . We can use some of that in other area's and look good to the stockholders .. besides , we can sell off the junk we don't want . So we can justify upping our end of year bonus … We're so smart ..


V - King sez :

____ present. ____present_____present

Wait ____ Wait ____ Wait , I ain't gets no present !

Ohh , my bad . The POTUS sent me a very nice letter and $ 1200.00

I reckon it's cuz I'm an AMERICAN CITIZEN

<strike></strike>

[powerabout]

Wheres the breakout on Evinrude vs boat companies? Its clear where they are making money and not making money. Also $450 mil is approx 5% of the overall outboard market worldwide. Its nothing.

Where do you find worldwide outboard sales data?

[powerabout]

Arent modern 4 strokes boring?
The only thing to talk about is the big numbers and that will get boring soon like power numbers in sterndrives and cars.
Are we interested in how much power is in a Tesla, no its just a fast car.
Who is interested in what engine your houseboat/pontoon has, it just gets in the way.

[InjectorService]

Where do you find worldwide outboard sales data?

It's public on their corporate websites, on their financial statements. I'm going from memory here I forget the dollar value, but the market share percentages as I remember them are below.

Yamaha - 36%
Mercury including Mercruiser - 36%
Suzuki - 10%
Tohatsu - 7%
Evinrude - 5%
Honda - 7% (but they group their entire power product sales in this as well)

I think I made a chart somewhere. I'll see if I have it still. (also these are 2018 numbers as the 2019 numbers weren't out for the 4th quarter when I looked into it)

[Markus]

Do you know what "marketing" is?

Yes, I do. Quite well, actually. I make my living as advisor to very large companies.

On the other hand, farming is a topic that I know nothing about, and I would never challenge your insights there.

I love those Plainsman gloves that you recommended by the way...

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[Markus]

I dunno man, the yamaha hpdi 2-strokes should have been better for a couple of reasons but they pretty much sucked.

They pretty much sucked, but they were not a disaster out of the gate like the Mercury DFI and Evinrude FICHT.<object id="__symantecPKIClientMessenger" data-supports-flavor-configuration="true" data-extension-version="1.0.1" style="display: none;"></object>__PRESENT