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02-20-2020, 08:28 PM #16
So no input hardly on the Top Pinning. As far as the costs, I was figuring the Vortex seem to run @$20 more than the ProMarine pistons. That's $120 that could go towards the $300 pinning process with the ProMarine pistons. So $180 for what seems to be a great insurance policy?
We only go through this circus once...so enjoy the rides!!!
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02-20-2020, 09:12 PM #17
Top pinning won’t hurt, and yea it’s great insurance, but do you really need it? Pins coming out really only seem to be an issue in hi rpm forged piston motors. That being said, we ran side pinned vertex pistons last year and spun it 9500 all season.
'95 STV "The Blue Goose"
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02-21-2020, 05:19 AM #18
Thanks Mach, seems as though Top Pinning is just an insurance plan. I will not turn anywhere near that many RPM. So the side pins should live just fine. A Lot more will probably wear out before they fail. Yet it's good to hear that Top Pinning won't hurt if one chooses the option.
We only go through this circus once...so enjoy the rides!!!
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02-21-2020, 10:49 PM #19
So has anyone experienced little bit higher leakdown with top pin?? I know jay does this to all his but wondering what others r experiencing, with ring gaps lined up just seems like it would b little higher
I also hear tod? At evolution has been using wsm for few yrs in his race motors also with real good results
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Hydrodreams liked this post
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02-21-2020, 11:26 PM #20
I have had Wiesco side pins walk out. in outboards and sled engines awhile back, Justmy2cents
1994 Brad Collins Mirage Jag.with 1990 2.4 BP E.F.I Offshore
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02-22-2020, 12:21 PM #21
Ya that's the thing now days the pins r doin better and not using weiscos, unless it gets hot or just excessive heat can loosen them up tho , but that would be well over 8k rpm and lots compression. I'm just curious if anyone noticed higher leak down on top pin? Just curious. I'm lookin to learn also
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02-22-2020, 01:20 PM #22
To be honest, I’ve wrenched on a lot of dual and single ring drag motors, where top pins are present. I can’t ever remember doing a leakdown test on any of those motors. It’s just not an important test on them. They tend to not last long enough for it to be necessary. Now I’m sure some guys will say my top pinned 260’s on my skater had this much leakdown blah blah blah, but kinda in my opinion, if you really need leakdown numbers, you really don’t need top pins. Just my opinion I’m sure I’ll get flak for it
'95 STV "The Blue Goose"
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02-23-2020, 01:39 AM #23
Snowmobile engines are cast pistons ,side pin and they run 6 to 8000 rpm all day for 5 to 6000 miles before a refresh and side pins dont come loose,being And the engines are not smooth running they shake and rattle ,so i,m giving vertex a fair shake as out of the box run as is
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Hydrodreams liked this post
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02-23-2020, 11:23 AM #24
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Capt.Insane-o, Hydrodreams liked this post
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02-23-2020, 09:58 PM #25
I had a few Wiesco piston pin issues myself in OMC's, but not in Mercs.....never ran them in my 2.5 so I can't add my .02 to this particular setup but two of my buddies are both rebuilding their Promax's now (one a 14 peddle 225 and the other a 8 peddle 200) and one is going to top pin the Pro-V pistons and the other is going to run stock Pro-V. It will be a great test but results will hopefully be a long time from now good, or bad (if any piston related failures). Note that Marles isn't excited about top-pinning Vertex pistons due to the issues he has had from them cracking during the pinning process, or in the motor running afterwards.
I am the type of guy that will go the Wizzard route whenever possible but do understand the extra costs and excessiveness....I just call it insurance. There is a place for those pistons to be used and most won't got that route on a stock-ish motor running no more than 7500 rpm....understood. As for the 225 and 200 Promax's, I see the reasoning for why both guys have decided what we all thought would be the best route, budget included.I have a boat or two.... that I never get to drive
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Hydrodreams liked this post
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02-24-2020, 07:07 AM #26
No issues with vertex or Weisco in my race motors. Been running them for years
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DOC W liked this post
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03-02-2020, 02:40 PM #275000 RPM
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I've built several promax engines using prov and vertex pistons with the 2mm ring and they've all done well. The only time I remember tearing one down and finding a loose locator pin was in a promax with proV pistons that got ran with no oil and blew. Motor got really hot and 2 of the pistons had loose locator pins. I don't blame that on the piston because it got hot enough to toast the crank and rods.
The last 2-3 sets of vertex I've used the end gaps measured all over the place and it wasn't because of the bores. It was in the rings. The pistons all measured good. I've used wsm pistons in the last 2 promax's I've built and I'm more impressed with them than the proV and vertex. I don't like the c clips that come with the proV's. (They just feel cheap to me but that's just an opinion) The wsm when measuring ring gap were all spot on and in my opinion come with a much better c clip. Time will tell how they hold up compared to the other 2 brands. I know several other builders that have been using them for along time and have been satisfied with there performance. The only reason I switched was to get the 1.5mm ring. I'm curious to see if there is any performance difference.
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