300r vs 300xs on same boat

**Chaz** · 02-04-2020, 11:53 PM

1917 Napier Lion .... twin-sticks and buckets ..

**Da Bull** · 02-05-2020, 04:28 AM

[QUOTE

Comparing the engine output of something with a narrow powerband "which will never work in a direct drive outboard application" is not relevant but those bikes are super cool and a RZ 500 is still on my bucket list.

][/QUOTE]

You are so right. They have tried four strokes in F-1 tunnel boats but not competitive at this time. I think it was Hyabusa Technology they used. I saw a video on YouTube. Funny thing was that during the vid of it on the water running around the track there were also a few Merc two strokes running to but they never lined up with any. I thought they might just to see how far off they were. I would have.

**Instigator** · 02-05-2020, 07:02 AM

Chaz, the 4 stroke guys started talking about hot rodded 4 strokes 20 yrs ago.

Since then? Crickets.....

**powerabout** · 02-05-2020, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Da Bull

[QUOTE

Comparing the engine output of something with a narrow powerband "which will never work in a direct drive outboard application" is not relevant but those bikes are super cool and a RZ 500 is still on my bucket list.

]

You are so right. They have tried four strokes in F-1 tunnel boats but not competitive at this time. I think it was Hyabusa Technology they used. I saw a video on YouTube. Funny thing was that during the vid of it on the water running around the track there were also a few Merc two strokes running to but they never lined up with any. I thought they might just to see how far off they were. I would have.[/QUOTE]

They did line up and the 2 strokes left them for dead and met them at the end of the main straight as they lapped them, as the 4 slugs were almost on the plane.
No surprise with a high strung motorbike engine.
They should of used a 7 marine...lol
Or just bring back KT's

**Chaz** · 02-05-2020, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Instigator

Chaz, the 4 stroke guys started talking about hot rodded 4 strokes 20 yrs ago.

Since then? Crickets.....

20 years, they're the lucky ones ...

Some have waited since 1905 for the LS on a stick ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-valve

No mention of Merc's version .. must not be "revolutionary" enough to warrant an update ..

Boats[edit]

In 1905 car builder Delahaye had experimented with a DOHC marine racing engine with six valves per cylinder. This Delahaye Titan engine was a massive 5190 cid (85.0-liter) four-cylinder that produced 350 bhp (0.07 bhp/cid). It allowed the motor boat Le Dubonnet piloted by Emile Dubonnet to set a new world's speed record on water, reaching 33.80 mph (54.40 km/h) on the lake at Juvisy, near Paris, France.^[34]
An example of modern multi-valve engines for small boats is the Volvo Penta IPS Series. These joystick-operated seawater-cooled inboard diesel engines use combined charging (turbo and supercharger, except IPS450) with aftercooler, common rail fuel injection and DOHCs with hydraulic 4-valve technology. Propshaft power ranges from 248 to 850 bhp (185 to 634 kW; 251 to 862 PS) (highest efficiency 59.7 kW/liter for IPS400 3.7-liter straight-4 diesel). Multiple units can be combined.

**JPEROG** · 02-05-2020, 09:29 AM

Lets see what next season brings for F1 "times are changing"..... Also remember that the mercury QC4 1350, 1550, 1650, and 1750 can be seen running poker runs and races all over the country and making it back to port at a much higher percentage of the time Vs. others who try to compete--point being that they have the resources to do what ever they want for output on the 4.6. Two of the limiting factors are: 1. The hull weight of which they are being bolted to "lightweight cats, 6 or 7 hundred horsepower, 140+ mph, and a guy with little experience that has a big wallet will equal death". 2. They are E.P.A. compliant and need to remain that way for a large percentage of their product line "the squeeze isn't worth the juice for them to deal with govt. regs.".

Joe

**Instigator** · 02-05-2020, 09:39 AM

The AMA is in our town and one of its officers confided in me that in his opinion, 4 strokes were the worst thing to ever happen to Motocross.(A SVC mgr in Fla told me same about PWCs)

Said when they pop one, only the wealthy can afford to rebuild it compared to the 2 strokes.

Stick a 2 stroke and, a lil Muratic acid, a set of rings, done in the back of your van and your back on the track for your next heat/moto.
Said those days, and teams are gone.

The pits are now full off $500K toy haulers.
Low budget, love of the sport teams, are gone.

The Fla PWC mgr told me they had 3 popped 4 stroke skis, just out of warranty, that the customers are walking away from their loan because they refuse pay $4500 to rebuild s ski worth $3500.

Originally Posted by Chaz

20 years, they're the lucky ones ...

Some have waited since 1905 for the LS on a stick ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-valve

No mention of Merc's version .. must not be "revolutionary" enough to warrant an update ..

**XP300** · 02-05-2020, 10:56 AM

Usually don't post and use SnF for Information and there is plenty of good in it.
Some of the Pics in this particular section are way cool to say the least.
This is going to be a Pepsi and Coke conversation for some time to Come.
Have first hand experience with Both Boosted 2 and 4 strokes in the Power toboggan industry.
No denying the new production boosted 2 stroke from BRP is a work of art in the Mountain Sled.
The same can be said for there Boosted 4 strokes in the Sled and Side By Side industry.
Once taken into account what the End Result goal really is determines what will be necessary to get the Job Done.
The boosted 2 stroke works awesome going up the side of a mountain because of its weight advantage in a sled
The Boosted 4 stroke in a sled at sea level is second to none for a choice, produces a rate of acceleration
of 10 mph per second for the first 10 seconds pretty easily rolling off the show floor.
How does all this relate to the previous Posts.... no idea its all personal preference.
Change and Technology are going to happen and at more accelerated rate than previous,
along with the appropriate Price.
Enjoy Your Personal preference and best of Luck running the Competition.

**Chaz** · 02-05-2020, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by JPEROG

Lets see what next season brings for F1 "times are changing"..... Also remember that the mercury QC4 1350, 1550, 1650, and 1750 can be seen running poker runs and races all over the country and making it back to port at a much higher percentage of the time Vs. others who try to compete--point being that they have the resources to do what ever they want for output on the 4.6. Two of the limiting factors are: 1. The hull weight of which they are being bolted to "lightweight cats, 6 or 7 hundred horsepower, 140+ mph, and a guy with little experience that has a big wallet will equal death". 2. They are E.P.A. compliant and need to remain that way for a large percentage of their product line "the squeeze isn't worth the juice for them to deal with govt. regs.".

Joe

How long were the Mercruiser's "just iron Big Chevies" ..

Then when they reinvented the wheel, well actually, they followed what Chief in Ft. Lauderdale did as far as the turbo part went. The rest looks like either Thunderheads or some of the early Feuling stuff ..

https://feulingparts.com/aboutus.php

http://www.valleyhead.com/thunder.html

XP300

Usually don't post and use SnF for Information and there is plenty of good in it.
Some of the Pics in this particular section are way cool to say the least.
This is going to be a Pepsi and Coke conversation for some time to Come.
Have first hand experience with Both Boosted 2 and 4 strokes in the Power toboggan industry.
No denying the new production boosted 2 stroke from BRP is a work of art in the Mountain Sled.
The same can be said for there Boosted 4 strokes in the Sled and Side By Side industry.
Once taken into account what the End Result goal really is determines what will be necessary to get the Job Done.
The boosted 2 stroke works awesome going up the side of a mountain because of its weight advantage in a sled
The Boosted 4 stroke in a sled at sea level is second to none for a choice, produces a rate of acceleration
of 10 mph per second for the first 10 seconds pretty easily rolling off the show floor.
How does all this relate to the previous Posts.... no idea its all personal preference.
Change and Technology are going to happen and at more accelerated rate than previous,
along with the appropriate Price.
Enjoy Your Personal preference and best of Luck running the Competition.

We all been friends for a couple of decades ... We just throwin the ball around till someone steps up to the mike and report back on how it went a couple weeks ago down @ Canal X So.

**Dave S** · 02-05-2020, 05:40 PM

Chazzzz.... Why do ya have to ruin a good thread with ....That.... next thing be OBAMMKISSING THE HIIL BEAST....She looks like on the bowel....that napier is neat.....

**powerabout** · 02-05-2020, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Chaz

How long were the Mercruiser's "just iron Big Chevies" ..

Then when they reinvented the wheel, well actually, they followed what Chief in Ft. Lauderdale did as far as the turbo part went. The rest looks like either Thunderheads or some of the early Feuling stuff ..

https://feulingparts.com/aboutus.php

http://www.valleyhead.com/thunder.html

<strike></strike>

<strike></strike>

are those heads from John Batten ( spelling?)

**JPEROG** · 02-05-2020, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by XP300

Usually don't post and use SnF for Information and there is plenty of good in it.
Some of the Pics in this particular section are way cool to say the least.
This is going to be a Pepsi and Coke conversation for some time to Come.
Have first hand experience with Both Boosted 2 and 4 strokes in the Power toboggan industry.
No denying the new production boosted 2 stroke from BRP is a work of art in the Mountain Sled.
The same can be said for there Boosted 4 strokes in the Sled and Side By Side industry.
Once taken into account what the End Result goal really is determines what will be necessary to get the Job Done.
The boosted 2 stroke works awesome going up the side of a mountain because of its weight advantage in a sled
The Boosted 4 stroke in a sled at sea level is second to none for a choice, produces a rate of acceleration
of 10 mph per second for the first 10 seconds pretty easily rolling off the show floor.
How does all this relate to the previous Posts.... no idea its all personal preference.
Change and Technology are going to happen and at more accelerated rate than previous,
along with the appropriate Price.
Enjoy Your Personal preference and best of Luck running the Competition.

After having a 998 turbo triple sled with some tuning and minor add-ons from Jason Price, I would never consider going back to the big bore two strokes that we ran for 15 years. I can remember getting my first watercraft cylinder motor from Rob Shooping "HTG" in my polaris days, then John Hoopers stuff came into play when I went green, then Jeff Simons built my RX1 and thinking there would never be anything better-but there is. I feel the same way about the new 4 stroke 4.6 platform but I am not in a financial position to replace the power on everything at once along with the fact that there are still better things to come.

Cool to hear that you pay attention on this site for feedback-

Joe

**powerabout** · 02-05-2020, 09:24 PM

Will there be a limit to how powerful an outboard the market can deal with?
2-1000hp outboard?
1000-2500 inboard?

**JPEROG** · 02-05-2020, 09:35 PM

Then when they reinvented the wheel, well actually, they followed what Chief in Ft. Lauderdale did as far as the turbo part went. The rest looks like either Thunderheads or some of the early Feuling stuff ..

I had a set of fuelings 4V heads on a bike and wanted to buy a triple cyl. motor but it wouldn't fit in a stock frame. A guy like yourself that has the welding ability to make any modifications imaginable could have one badass bagger. As for Tommy and the turbos, you don't see them making many runs for what ever reason and racing has lots of them in service. I was in Rick Bowlings boat last year and the clock on his 1350s were at 160 hours and had not been touched "pretty impressive".

Joe

**JPEROG** · 02-05-2020, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by powerabout

Will there be a limit to how powerful an outboard the market can deal with?
2-1000hp outboard?
1000-2500 inboard?

Insurance companies will have a play in the limit "most guys that have a rig with this type of power have a net worth that needs to be protected". A friend has been shopping for insurance rates on a new boat that he is building and once you exceed 120 m.p.h. capability, the opportunities for coverage become very limited and very expensive. The rates for a 32 cat with 300s Vs 450s is almost triple due to the speed threshold.

Joe