300r vs 300xs on same boat

**engineermike** · 02-21-2020, 11:24 AM

Are you you denying the existence of inflation? Or did i get the MSRP wrong? If I’m wrong on either one of those let me know how and I’ll fix my math. Some claim the government inflation numbers are way understated, but that actually hurts the 300x economic case.

**Dave Strong** · 02-21-2020, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Chaz

Good to see someone willing to address my question ...

I'm pretty sure that the 300R / SM / wing plate deal is over $30,000.00 each.
But lets round it off and call it 30K x 2 = $60,000.00 Lets forget about tax, tag, dealer destination, installation fee's .. etc, etc, ect ... or add $5000.00 to be safe. Your choice.

According to the ballers .. no one wants a crappy old 300x anymore ..

How many you seen for sale between 10 and $12,000.00 that are still for sale ???
Has it been in salt, how many hours, any welds, it's 15 years old ... etc, etc, etc.
So what are they really worth, in hundred dollar bills ... ? Seems like less than 10 to me. And if you don't mind piecing one together and know where to look .. a bunch less than that .. But round numbers .. lets call it $10,000.00

30,000 x 2 = 60,000
10,000 x 2 = 20,000
--------------------------------------------------
$40,000.00 diff I stand corrected

2 ~ 3 MPH for $40,000.00 Heck of a deal ...

engineermike

Technically, for a fair comparison, you’d have to look at the new MSRP of each. In 2005 the 300x SM was $20,500. The 300R SM is $29,000 +/-. If you include 3% inflation for 15 years, the price of the 300x SM in today’s dollars is $32,000. So, new vs new, the 300r is almost 10% cheaper than the 300x.

You should run for office, I watched the debate the other night ... your party needs help !

Like you, they are still using CCNN + MSDNC polling numbers ...

BTW, it was just a movie ...

I seem to recall wire harness that is needed to do the upgrade was also extra cost and could have been some other stuff as well.

Dave

**Chaz** · 02-21-2020, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by engineermike

Are you you denying the existence of inflation? Or did i get the MSRP wrong? If I’m wrong on either one of those let me know how and I’ll fix my math. Some claim the government inflation numbers are way understated, but that actually hurts the 300x economic case.

The real math is :

The gov doesn't have a surplus of 2005 / 300x motors for sale.

Show me where a 300x sold in 2020 for $32,000.00

3% compounded annually, what does that make a Model T, or a 1973 Vega worth. ?

Your 400 Vertigo, how much has it approached in value since you bought it .. ???
(better refill your Prozac .. before you list it )

Just more, if my aunt was my uncle jibberish ... but nice try

I seem to recall wire harness that is needed to do the upgrade was also extra cost and could have been some other stuff as well.

Dave

Dave, if we're gonna nit~pick every little thing .. LMAO
Might as well mention that all the props you own .. are now junk too. But if ya bought em long-long ago, because of inflation, you can actually make money on them ... so I'm told

Mind you, to be part of the baller club .. ya need to buy wheels that are 3 to 5 thousand each ..

All kiddin aside, I heard from a very good source that to drop off your cat hull rigged for Mercury, and pick up a running boat, expect to pay at least $70,000.00 before the smoke clears ... _{^{<strike>

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**JrCRXHF** · 02-21-2020, 01:08 PM

mother mercury wants you to ditch the 300X and buy new 300R the push this by making repair parts hard to come by. Some day the 300R will get the same treatment.

**engineermike** · 02-21-2020, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Chaz

The real math is :

The gov doesn't have a surplus of 2005 / 300x motors for sale.

Show me where a 300x sold in 2020 for $32,000.00

3% compounded annually, what does that make a Model T, or a 1973 Vega worth. ?

Your 400 Vertigo, how much has it approached in value since you bought it .. ???
(better refill your Prozac .. before you list it )... _{^{<strike>

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Im sorry your 300x isn’t an appreciating asset. Neither is my 400r. The real math is that you could always take old junk and go as fast or faster than new stuff for cheaper. But it’s still old junk.

**capteliminator** · 02-21-2020, 01:44 PM

Okay made a call and a pair of 300R wingplate motors can be had for 52,405 plus freight and no tax. My opinion on clean 300x motors(I have 2) would sell for 12500 easily each. So, 52,405 minus 25,000 is 27,405. No hi test needed, warranty yada yada. Not tryin to argue with anyone but if you have a twin engine rig with 300x motors and want to repower its not 60k to gain 2-3 mph, should be less than 30k. Granted new motors aren't for everyone but there IS a market for them, just sayin!!

**Double Rigged** · 02-21-2020, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by engineermike

Im sorry your 300x isn’t an appreciating asset. Neither is my 400r. The real math is that you could always take old junk and go as fast or faster than new stuff for cheaper. But it’s still old junk.

I bet some feel pretty bad spending 50k and getting by old junk! I know I would. The 300x is the only contender to hold its own against the 300r. I agree anyone running a 300xs package the 300r is a faster set up hands down. For me not worth the price to go same speed or slower. Have to keep saving for 450's!

**engineermike** · 02-21-2020, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Double Rigged

... For me not worth the price to go same speed or slower.

I’m not trying to convince anyone it’s worth it for them. That’s their own decision, but spending $30k for 2 mph of speed is your only concern doesn’t seem worth it to most (not to me, for sure). But speed isn’t the only factor that comes into play.

Originally Posted by Double Rigged

Have to keep saving for 450's!

The 450r is awesome, but I’ll just have to settle for less because it’s not worth the money to me.

**Capt.Insane-o** · 02-21-2020, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by JrCRXHF

mother mercury wants you to ditch the 300X and buy new 300R the push this by making repair parts hard to come by. Some day the 300R will get the same treatment.

It'll be the Veradoo first. First thing NLA will be the oil plug drain plug gasket.

**Chaz** · 02-22-2020, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by capteliminator

Okay made a call and a pair of 300R wingplate motors can be had for 52,405 plus freight and no tax. My opinion on clean 300x motors(I have 2) would sell for 12500 easily each. So, 52,405 minus 25,000 is 27,405. No hi test needed, warranty yada yada. Not tryin to argue with anyone but if you have a twin engine rig with 300x motors and want to repower its not 60k to gain 2-3 mph, should be less than 30k. Granted new motors aren't for everyone but there IS a market for them, just sayin!!

No argument here .. I think peeps that argue instead of having a factual, thought-provoking, conversation .. must have been abused as a child .. or something
..

It's always nice to have something to sell to offset the cost of the new toys. Be it Rolex's, motors, or dividend checks.
The problem that seems to follow me around if I am selling something of value, and I'll use your number of $25,000.00 is that the banks won't lend that kind of money on say .. 15 year old engines. Guys that have a line of credit where a signature loan is all they need, are almost as rare as a guy who goes out and digs a can up from his back yard. Sometimes you see em last online for an hour and they're gone for 15K each, while others get bumped down to 10K or less and still don't sell .. No rhyme or reason to it.
New motors, it seems most get sold 4-6 at a time and go on center consoles that area half a block long. Even if I hit the lottery .. I still don't see it .. different strokes.
$52,405 looks like $26,202.50 each. (i know Merc tightened down on dealers selling motors without installing and registering each unit themselves, so I won't ask)
So thats a 300R / sporty / wing plates for $26,202.50 ea. Shipping, around $300 ea. That harness Dave spoke of .. maybe $500 ea. Lets call it $27K Add a $3000 dollar prop ... Lookin like $30,000.00 a copy. And the're still not mounted.
I'm too old with too many miles on me. I'd never get my moneys
worth out of them, and my kid could care less, He'd rather have a flats boat with a light motor to do some backcountry fishin with ... But for those that have the money and want to be seen ... then Like I said a hunnerd pages back, use it in good health
.

I don't have the energy to go into the 450's .... so here's this

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**Chaz** · 02-22-2020, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by engineermike

Im sorry your 300x isn’t an appreciating asset. Neither is my 400r. The real math is that you could always take old junk and go as fast or faster than new stuff for cheaper. But it’s still old junk.

Old junk and newer old junk ..
Actually, mine probably were/are worth more than I paid for them. I bought one lower in Pompano Beach, the other in Atlanta .. the guts have been coated and

cryoed

, and have the "witch's nose" water pick-ups, new stainless driveshafts

and all the billet seal carrier stuff. If I told you what I have in them, you'd think I was lying.

Same goes for the 15" conversion's .. that I did myself. I think I did pay 750 each for the cowlings and pans. Cuz they were there, and as nice as the man said they were. I bought that stuff to beat the **** out of, not to make money on. I did that on the other ones I have done. My FNB brokerage account took a hit the day the twin towers fell. And were in the red until Trump took office. My dad went

thru

the crash of 1929 and thought I spent money foolishly. I thought he was out of touch. Having been

thru

a bit of that myself, I'm not willing to go buy a newer motorhome, truck, and outboards for my boat. I noticed, that you now don't see the need to spend $60,000.00 for 50 more HP than you got now ... so much for inflation.

Junk powerheads .. ohh it's worse than that !

I take the sleeves out of the blocks and put them in two groups. One just have
a small hole or window where a rod peaked outside .. the second group has windows and big doors poked thru them. The second group usually goin the .44c a pound pile. The way I pick a good one is I wait and see which block my kids dog takes a leak on .. I'll pizz on it for a week or so myself before I rush to a decision .. Once I made up my mind I roll it out from the overhang and let the rain and a can of Gunk do the pre-prep work ...

Then weld up the window, hone the crank sealing ring area (they all trench out) gut the exhaust log, do my "behind the liner" transfer port work, bore the register of the welded hole .017 and drop a .020 sleeve in after I cut the ports on the mill and finish em all by hand, the other 5 get dropped in. Decked and bored .020 over. Sometimes I bore the block out a quarter of an inch before I put sleeves in it .. but that's a different deal .. billet heads, reed blocks, and reed adapter plates and all that ... junk

My biggest problem seems to be that, someone usually comes up and makes me an offer I can't refuse and it leaves in their truck .. then i gotta go thru the whole ritual of block selection all over again ...

I am having two more problems now that I think about it ..
#1) The custom rods I designed .. I have to buy 200 of them at a time. Which really isn't so bad, considering how many motors I can build for the price of a single 300R
#2) The other problem ,, Yea, I just got three blocks the other day .. that have
no holes, windows, curtains or doorways blown into them ..
It's foreign to me, but, I might even leave the sleeves in them and let

em

stay "inside the shop" till they get machined and built ...

**Turborr** · 02-22-2020, 07:13 PM

Are you talking about Dan from L&W from Ft. Lauderdale? He still builds bikes? He was just about untouchable in outlaw.

Originally Posted by Chaz

Thank you for making my point .... which was not too much meat on the bone, as far as fuel and spark tables.
I only mentioned can timing because it's easy to move the power around on a twin cam. If it was mine .. you know I'm not mature enough to stop there ... LOL
By 1976 maybe 77, George had a turbo/alky Z1 that could carry his grit's and gravy azz deep into the 8's @ over 155 mph.
The Man-Cup, PDRA Pro/Mod bikes of today are truly flying. But even though they seem to call all of them "Busa's" ... don't be surprised if you pulled the fairing off and find the tried and true GS platform underneath.
Dan Wagner who is in a lot of those vids, is from Ft. Lauderdale. He raced in the old Miami-Hollywood days, and at Moroso .. until he moved to N. Carolina. His game has improved 10 fold since the move ... I say good for him, he works hard and deserved a break ..

Ifin ya ever get your hands on a 300R head .. bring it down. We will put it on the windmill and see what kind of numbers it can blow ... then it's simple math to transfer that into how much "power potential" it has .. my guess , it will not see 300 intake and 220 CFM exhaust ..

**Chaz** · 02-22-2020, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by Turborr

Are you talking about Dan from L&W from Ft. Lauderdale? He still builds bikes? He was just about untouchable in outlaw.

Yes, L+W .. that's it. John Sach's .. Kim Morrell raced out of that shop if I remember correctly. Ralph Medrano worked / raced out of MTC in Cocoa Beach and between them, they had some good running bikes.
When we pulled in the "Seminole Hard-Rock" as a $3000.00 a race Q-16 class sponsor at Moroso, the bike guys wanted in. Of course, we let em in, they didn't stay long ..

When PDRA started getting big, a few of them moved to the Carolina's to be in the middle of it. I think Dan picked up the Al-Anabi (Qatar) Q-80 (Kuwait) and Drag965 (UEA) team's all at once ... LOL That's why I said ... he caught a good break ..

**Chaz** · 02-23-2020, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by JrCRXHF

mother mercury wants you to ditch the 300X and buy new 300R the push this by making repair parts hard to come by. Some day the 300R will get the same treatment.

That's when it will be time to buy em up .. cheap. And make two broke ones turn into one really good one ..