300r vs 300xs on same boat

[Chaz]

I don't believe the A/F ratio could be too far off ..

So that leaves putting a couple ~ few degrees of advance in.
Back in the KZ1000 / GS 1100 days, we found a lot more moving the cams around than moving the ignition timing. But I understand it's easier to put the magic box in a box along with a check for $1000 and mail it away .. and being like a kid at Christmas when it returns .. Few snap in plugs, a grommet or two .. and badda~bing ... (how did that program work out for the 300x-300xs guys)
The other way, requires slotting sprockets on a rotary table, using a degree wheel and checking piston to valve on an assembled shim and bucket motor .. but then, well you know what the outcome would be ..

Just so I don't forget ... we're at $65,000.00 for 2~3 MPH .. 300x to 300R .. right ?

[AZMIDLYF]

yes sure it will but I was thinking race classes, lets see how it goes in ski racing as thats the 21' 300HP market

The Aussie ski racers are switching over to 4 strokes in droves. But that is kind of sport specific.

[Chaz]

The Aussie ski racers are switching over to 4 strokes in droves. But that is kind of sport specific.

Just because some of the other kids are jumping off the roof into the swimming pool, doesn't mean you have to do it too ...















Heard it from my folks, told it to my kid .. his answer was the same as mine .. pppffttt when I get there , we're putting their trampoline on the garage and goin for height and distance ..

Chaz= wunderin, if stepping off of a slalom ski .. hurts as bad as getting thrown out of a boat @ 100 MPH ...

[AZMIDLYF]

Like I stated Chaz...sport specific. They like the midrange grunt of these cubic inch torquers.

[powerabout]

Like I stated Chaz...sport specific. They like the midrange grunt of these cubic inch torquers.

the outboards always struggled to get out of the corners versus blown big blocks ( now turbo big blocks)

[baja200merk]

I don't think the "weekend novice" would be good with a tunnel boat or mod vp boat and a 300 drag 2.5 either lol

Exactly what I was trying to say.

[JPEROG]

I don't believe the A/F ratio could be too far off ..

So that leaves putting a couple ~ few degrees of advance in.
Back in the KZ1000 / GS 1100 days, we found a lot more moving the cams around than moving the ignition timing. But I understand it's easier to put the magic box in a box along with a check for $1000 and mail it away .. and being like a kid at Christmas when it returns .. Few snap in plugs, a grommet or two .. and badda~bing ... (how did that program work out for the 300x-300xs guys)
The other way, requires slotting sprockets on a rotary table, using a degree wheel and checking piston to valve on an assembled shim and bucket motor .. but then, well you know what the outcome would be ..

Just so I don't forget ... we're at $65,000.00 for 2~3 MPH .. 300x to 300R .. right ?

The biggest gain that I ever experienced with the GS1100 and 1150 was sending the head to George Bryce and having oversized valves along with porting. He had them figured out and used magacycle cams. The difference was extreme back then but like all of the old stuff, a new bike modded with DOT tires and no bar makes the old stuff look slow. Times have changed...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu51h-0e7ZY

So you don't forget, the guys buying these motors are not doing it only for the 2-3 mph and the money is not an issue for most of them. When mercury releases a bigger number on the side of a 450 that has more air being forced, the guys will get in line to buy them for the additional 5K or 10K just like they are going after the 450s now.

Joe

[Chaz]

The biggest gain that I ever experienced with the GS1100 and 1150 was sending the head to George Bryce and having oversized valves along with porting. He had them figured out and used magacycle cams. The difference was extreme back then but like all of the old stuff, a new bike modded with DOT tires and no bar makes the old stuff look slow. Times have changed...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu51h-0e7ZY

Joe

Thank you for making my point .... which was not too much meat on the bone, as far as fuel and spark tables.
I only mentioned can timing because it's easy to move the power around on a twin cam. If it was mine .. you know I'm not mature enough to stop there ... LOL
By 1976 maybe 77, George had a turbo/alky Z1 that could carry his grit's and gravy azz deep into the 8's @ over 155 mph.
The Man-Cup, PDRA Pro/Mod bikes of today are truly flying. But even though they seem to call all of them "Busa's" ... don't be surprised if you pulled the fairing off and find the tried and true GS platform underneath.
Dan Wagner who is in a lot of those vids, is from Ft. Lauderdale. He raced in the old Miami-Hollywood days, and at Moroso .. until he moved to N. Carolina. His game has improved 10 fold since the move ... I say good for him, he works hard and deserved a break ..

Ifin ya ever get your hands on a 300R head .. bring it down. We will put it on the windmill and see what kind of numbers it can blow ... then it's simple math to transfer that into how much "power potential" it has .. my guess , it will not see 300 intake and 220 CFM exhaust ..

[Instigator]

Recently Stumbled on a YouTube video of “battle of the 2 strokes”.

Top two was a H-2 against a Suzy water buffalo which won w/an 8.80!!!
Not bad for non boosted 45 yr old junk.

[Chaz]

I'll see your "water buffalo" and raise ya with an Allen Millyard H1- Kawazuki conversion ..



Out of all the Millyard marvels, the 5 cyl 750 / 1300 is still one of my fav's ..

( If he took them stupid ear muff's off, he'd be able to hear it runnin thru the clutch)



And for the "ski race" crowd .. here's a 5L Pratt+Whitnee to yank a half a dozen skiers up at a time ..

[baja200merk]

Most of this **** is way before my time but badass.

Joe you still “storing” my 2nd vmax?

[Instigator]

Yep, guy is genius.

He is a regular contributor in a British classic bike mag I subscribe to.

He just finished an in-line 374cc 6 Honda tribute bike for their championship 350cc grand pro bike from the ‘60’s.

He built the crank, frame, gas tank, pipes etc, for it.

Hes done a 4,5 and 6 cyl 2 stroke Kawi conversion.

Also built a V-10 Viper motor bike.
All in a little shed behind his house.

I'll see your "water buffalo" and raise ya with an Allen Millyard H1- Kawazuki conversion ..



Out of all the Millyard marvels, the 5 cyl 750 / 1300 is still one of my fav's ..

( If he took them stupid ear muff's off, he'd be able to hear it runnin thru the clutch)



And for the "ski race" crowd .. here's a 5L Pratt+Whitnee to yank a half a dozen skiers up at a time ..

[capteliminator]

I don't believe the A/F ratio could be too far off ..

So that leaves putting a couple ~ few degrees of advance in.
Back in the KZ1000 / GS 1100 days, we found a lot more moving the cams around than moving the ignition timing. But I understand it's easier to put the magic box in a box along with a check for $1000 and mail it away .. and being like a kid at Christmas when it returns .. Few snap in plugs, a grommet or two .. and badda~bing ... (how did that program work out for the 300x-300xs guys)
The other way, requires slotting sprockets on a rotary table, using a degree wheel and checking piston to valve on an assembled shim and bucket motor .. but then, well you know what the outcome would be ..

Just so I don't forget ... we're at $65,000.00 for 2~3 MPH .. 300x to 300R .. right ?

The math on this doesn't add up to me. Why is it 60-65K? I have seen 300R's for sale for 22K and change. If one has a boat with twin 300x motors and wanted to go to 300R's, wouldnt one be able to sell the 300x motors to offset the cost of new power?

[engineermike]

Technically, for a fair comparison, you’d have to look at the new MSRP of each. In 2005 the 300x SM was $20,500. The 300R SM is $29,000 +/-. If you include 3% inflation for 15 years, the price of the 300x SM in today’s dollars is $32,000. So, new vs new, the 300r is almost 10% cheaper than the 300x.

[Chaz]

The math on this doesn't add up to me. Why is it 60-65K? I have seen 300R's for sale for 22K and change. If one has a boat with twin 300x motors and wanted to go to 300R's, wouldnt one be able to sell the 300x motors to offset the cost of new power?

Good to see someone willing to address my question ...

I'm pretty sure that the 300R / SM / wing plate deal is over $30,000.00 each.
But lets round it off and call it 30K x 2 = $60,000.00 Lets forget about tax, tag, dealer destination, installation fee's .. etc, etc, ect ... or add $5000.00 to be safe. Your choice.

According to the ballers .. no one wants a crappy old 300x anymore ..
How many you seen for sale between 10 and $12,000.00 that are still for sale ???
Has it been in salt, how many hours, any welds, it's 15 years old ... etc, etc, etc.
So what are they really worth, in hundred dollar bills ... ? Seems like less than 10 to me. And if you don't mind piecing one together and know where to look .. a bunch less than that .. But round numbers .. lets call it $10,000.00

30,000 x 2 = 60,000
10,000 x 2 = 20,000
--------------------------------------------------
$40,000.00 diff I stand corrected

2 ~ 3 MPH for $40,000.00 Heck of a deal ...

engineermike

Technically, for a fair comparison, you’d have to look at the new MSRP of each. In 2005 the 300x SM was $20,500. The 300R SM is $29,000 +/-. If you include 3% inflation for 15 years, the price of the 300x SM in today’s dollars is $32,000. So, new vs new, the 300r is almost 10% cheaper than the 300x.



You should run for office, I watched the debate the other night ... your party needs help !

Like you, they are still using CCNN + MSDNC polling numbers ...

BTW, it was just a movie ...

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