300r vs 300xs on same boat

**Chaz** · 02-27-2020, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Z06man

Are the new Skaters slower or whats up . 28 Nordic went 113 with 300R . Every DW 28 Fat Cat has gone over 120 with 300s Heck with 4 of us Skater Dave , Brad Z. Myself and 1 more passenger we went 114 and was still climbing with Dave driving the boat the very 1st time. And we only had the Hill 5 Blades if only Mercury would loan me some of their 5 blades .

Every ... Over ... Still climbing .... ? On that day, it was a 114 MPH boat.

I was never able to get a real top end number as I had early 300R with 1.75 gear but it would pull that to the limiter with 4 in boat and fuel past 120 with 38 pitch hill 5 blade . Boat now has 1.60 gears and new hill 5 blades will be tried out buy Dave when it warms up . I did not think it would pull the 38s with 1.60 gear but had to try 1 day and got it to 120 at 5600 rpm in a river with a turn coming quick impressive for being way over propped .

It's tough sorting thru these two statements, but i take it that you could be loaded down with a 1:75 gear and it would zip right on up to 120 MPH and be on the limiter.

Then with a gear change to a 1:60 which works out to aprox. 500 RPM
(You didn't mention whether the other 3 were with you again, but saying ...
"I had to try it" lends the idea you went out alone)
But now with less weight, it won't pull the mule, lose's 800 RPM , but ran the same 120 MPH.

Now you (or Dave) bought a different set of wheels to get back the RPM you lost with the gear change ... going by your numbers, it looks like it's going to run 120 on the limiter ... once again. Unless you totally missed it ( which I don't believe you did) Here's why ...

Any engine 2 stroke , 4 stroke , that has an early ( or flat ) torque peak, will be past the meat of the curve at high RPM. No way around it.
One having more displacement than the other will tend to mask the horsepower brick wall a little better. But in the end, swapping prop's, gears etc. will have you dancing around the wall, optimizing. You'll get everything except for the ability to breathe up top and the speed from horsepower that come's along with it ..

BTW .. that was a beautiful boat

**Z06man** · 02-27-2020, 10:22 PM

I never got to run the boat alone with a 1.60 gear with any other prop than the 38s that I had with the 1.75 and that was in the river with no long straigts. I did run the boat several times before getting 1.60s with 750lbs passenger weight to 120 with 38s and 1.75 on the limiter but buy the time I got a set of 34 and 36s and 1.60s boat sold but I can tell you the slip numbers went down with the 1.60 and 34s .Boat with the 4 of us with new 1.60s and 34s was only turning close to 6k at 114 and pulling when the new owner backed off if memory serves me correct Brad Z may chime in he was in the back.I know all props are not exactly what pitch they claim .They are a great boat but I had a chance to build a new 32 DW so I took it but it wont be my last 28DW Fat Cat. And a 28 Skater is probably a better rough water boat but the 28DW has a windshield is fully capped and runs over 120 and has no wood and accelerates faster IMO . They are both great boats and I have had Skaters also not a hater built my garage and boat house to fit a 28 Skater .But when I saw the 28DW I was sold on the looks and it performed great.

**Double Rigged** · 02-28-2020, 07:10 AM

Same here Z06man, the DW's are awesome boats. No doubt about it and the 300r is a great motor too. Just for me or IMO anyone that has healthy 300x's I do not think the performance is better let alone worth the money unless you are dependent upon having a warranty and cannot fix your own stuff. I would be a 28' DW would have to run at least 125-128 with a pair of properly set up 300x's. My buddies 28' Skater runs in the mid 120's all day with them. Boat is 2017 Classic deck with 15" motors new out of the box.

**mikesufka** · 02-28-2020, 08:07 AM

I hope to get a chance to ride in Daves DW28 ( former ZO6man's ) boat this summer. Looks like a super wicked ride.

MDS

**Z06man** · 02-28-2020, 08:18 AM

Yes the X motors are great and mine is running well. I started this about 300XS VS 300R on same boat .But it went way south , But I did notice grant in his testing found what I was saying that boat was faster and slip went down with 1.60 vs the 1.75 111 @ 6300 with 1.75 and 114 @ 6355 with 1.60 and 34s on paper boat should have been slower with gear change if max power is below both RPM numbers. The first and only props I ever ran on the boat was the Hill 5 blade starting with the 38s it would have been nice to had time and pull to test at the lake but I have only tested at the lake once years ago and it was KOOL .I did not have 2 days and the Merc prop factory and for sure don't have Grants exp. and knowledge . The boat has more in it but that is for Joe P. and Skater Dave to do this summer . By the way Joe showed pics of Over Kill interior it is awesome hope you dont mind something looking close in my new boat , it is hard to pick patterns and colors and know what it will turn out like .

**Double Rigged** · 02-28-2020, 09:03 AM

No worries on the interior. I worked hard on designing it and it was fun. Use a program called pixelolator and drew on some photographs to find what i want.

**Brad Zastrow** · 02-28-2020, 10:54 AM

[QUOTE=Chaz;3190972]Every ... Over ... Still climbing .... ? On that day, it was a 114 MPH boat.

I was in the boat that day. Dave had about 5 mins drive time in the boat on a test ride. He was NOT doing a top speed test. He was simply trying to find the sweet spot for the trim at higher speed. We were shocked when I looked at the GPS and saw 114 when he backed off and it had a lot more rpm left in the 300R's. I really believe the boat will run close to 130 with some setup. Not sure Dave wants to find out. I personally have no real interest anymore in seeing how fast I can run a small boat. I have been close to 180 in my old 39 MTI and happy to say I lived. Anything over 100mph in any size boat is fast and bad things can happen quickly. What I will say is the 300R's are driver friendly the 28 DW is a great looking and fun boat.

**Markus** · 02-28-2020, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Z06man

I built my garage and boat house to fit a 28 Skater .But when I saw the 28DW I was sold on the looks and it performed great.

What are the dimensions of the garage and boat house? Does the 28DW fit?

**John S** · 02-28-2020, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Double Rigged

I agree but EPA pretty much killed any further hp gains from Mercury. Motor was going to be their 400hp two stroke.

Where were they going to find 400hp in that motor? Adding displacement? I don't think the 3.2xs motor was near 400, was it? And that had better (modern) fuel management. They didn't sound near as cool as twin 2.5's anyways.

**Capt.Insane-o** · 02-28-2020, 06:42 PM

The exhaust chest and to a lesser extent porting

**Double Rigged** · 02-28-2020, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by John S

Where were they going to find 400hp in that motor? Adding displacement? I don't think the 3.2xs motor was near 400, was it? And that had better (modern) fuel management. They didn't sound near as cool as twin 2.5's anyways.

Diamond Marine was well on their way to building a 400hp version for Jim and Garth before their accident in Skater the killed them. They were funding it. I believe there was a larger displacement, porting, higher RPM, new fuel management etc.

**powerabout** · 02-28-2020, 07:43 PM

300 needs a new block so you can mod exhaust, perhaps a job for CRT?

**Capt.Insane-o** · 02-28-2020, 08:16 PM

No..

**JPEROG** · 02-28-2020, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by Double Rigged

Diamond Marine was well on their way to building a 400hp version for Jim and Garth before their accident in Skater the killed them. They were funding it. I believe there was a larger displacement, porting, higher RPM, new fuel management etc.

As of last week the remaining power head was for sale. I was approached but had to pass as I am making the jump to the 8 stacks...

Joe

**Chaz** · 02-29-2020, 12:47 AM

I do have to agree the thread went way off the rails by page 2. That's when all the "Woff Tickets" were sold .. members subscribed .. and nothing but crickets ..

Someone in the V-8 "Hierarchy" should have at least had the class to come back and post ... "No Improvement"... And yes the rest of us should have just let it die a quick death and wind up back on page 20 by now ..

How much of a Skater is Supa-Star's 24' Skater, I don't know, but the day I saw it @ D.W.'s there was a box/tunnel extension being added, 2 or 3 people rolling around underneath it, makin dust with DA sanders .. Not my business how tuned up the bottoms are, but I would say it a bit more Skater than Joes 24'. So results by an average Joe, may differ ..

In case someone missed the memo .. The new V-8 , 300R is a 300+ HP motor , like the 300x is .. Neither are 350's or 400's .. the're a big inch ..4 stroke 300 with a bunch of mid range torque to get 36 or 40+ foot center consoles on top.
Regular gas .. I know how important that talking point has become .. but here's a clue, it burns junk fuel and survives because it has NO COMPRESSION. They don't pull to Nepon-siki .. because it has a Pee Wee Herman CAMSHAFT to match the lack of compression.
No need for anyone to take it personally, it's not like anyone here actually built those motor's themselves. You bought what they were willing to sell ya, nothing more, nothing less ...

So now we reached the point where the original crystal ball predictions of effortlessly going 130 .. belly-flopped. Better up sell to wide body Skaters and DW/fatcat boats, cuz the narrow hulls aint a gonna do it.
Opps, it's the weight of the wide Skater .. if you say so.
You don't have to upsell me on the DW/FC, thank you. I was sub-contracted many Rick George / Fatcat projects, well before the plug for that boat was ever cut. Thinkin back, I believe I started the original thread on that boat after the first few came out of the mold .. I'm not one to make predictions cuz I don't wanna put myself in the same predicament to where you guys put yourselves of having to find a nice downhill sloped river or waterfall to make your predictions a reality ..

To add one more to the pile .. a couple of the S, S/S 32DW's with the 7 cylinder 3.2L motors can go a buck-twenty .. So again, what performance gain does a pair of $50,000.00 dollar motors get me that's any better than the old ... junk !

I saw on F*c*book where someone was pickin at the Supa-Star to run for $5000.
He responded to the guy, I'm over it .. you have a 130 MPH boat and I do not.
See the undeserved pickle you guys put him in ...

By the way Brad, I had to go to Orlando this mornin, I took my 78 MPH pick-up truck. Between the State Troopers and traffic, that's all the faster I went. My kid could prob give ya a higher number, but I can't speak for him .. Seem's like any time I ever made a SWAG at it .. I wound up runnin over the crankshaft ...