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01-13-2020, 07:10 PM #165000 RPM
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In Canada, If the boat can do 60mph+ insurance is rather difficult. I’m with Premier Marine for my V-hull and they call it a Jet boat policy. I got the policy through a broker. But you probably already tried them and they said “No”?
I pay $680/yr on a $35,000 boat/motor/trailer value with $2,000,0000 liability, they know the boat will do 75+08 Checkmate 2100br 250xs
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01-13-2020, 09:56 PM #176000 RPM
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Correct, Premier does have a high perf product line but they start to tap out around 100 mph and/or with air entrapment boats.
Matt
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01-14-2020, 01:11 AM #18
pretty much am limited to ogilvy. Ive contacted every company that has been suggested to me and always end up back at ogilvy. Its looking to be about 2k a year, still undecided on if its even worth it, might do it for a few years and see if premiums go down as a history is established. just hate for it to be stolen or damaged and not have it covered especially within the first 5yrs.
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01-14-2020, 07:33 AM #195000 RPM
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Stolen or damaged aren’t what’ll bankrupt you, it’s liability!
If your boat is stolen you’re out a boat.......
If you drive over a canoe you’re out a house, a car, your business......and whatever else you own.
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01-14-2020, 08:29 AM #205000 RPM
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Tres Martin is/was a racer, might still be racing. The Off Shore Only guys who have taken the course highly recommend it to cat owners. A good part of the Course is hands on in your boat. I know he travels to some of the more popular lakes in Canada to teach. He does go to Shuswap Lake in BC as three years ago, I met a guy from Calgary who was there in his DCB to take the course.
The owner of the DCB was also having trouble getting insurance(didn’t like the price) and didn’t have any on his boat when we were taking. I think he did mention he had liability in a umbrella policy, but I thought those only work as a top up once you have basic 1,000,000 liability inside a regular boat/car policy.Last edited by altamate; 01-14-2020 at 08:40 AM.
08 Checkmate 2100br 250xs
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01-14-2020, 09:34 AM #21
Matt
You are leading the guy down a very scary path here. I do this for a living and I can sell for the same company Ogilvy does. With your Talon in Canada you are limited to this market at the moment. If you choose to use a US carrier you might as well just burn the money to keep warm this winter as they have no legal obligation to pay claims in Canada nor can they insure a Canadian registered vessel.
To Matt's point about getting a liability umbrella that won't work either as a Liability umbrella is exactly was it says sounds like an additional coverage that will add liability to an already existing policy. The liability umbrella won't kick in until the primary policy has exhausted its limits. If the insured fails to keep the primary policy in force the umbrella will never respond.
So for Canada right now for a Tunnel (if you want actual coverage) There is only one market for the time being. We are in a bad spot at the moment for all insurance in Canada Market conditions are seeing insurers refusing to cover or charging stupid rates to cover many different risks. Good thing is that this is temporary.
Jason
18 Talon SOLD
XR 2002 SOLD
2011 STV RR 300pm SOld
24 Skater 300xs
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01-14-2020, 11:51 AM #225000 RPM
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08 Checkmate 2100br 250xs
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01-14-2020, 02:08 PM #23Junior Member
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I also have been in the business for 40 years until my retirement last year. Agree that an Umbrella form will not pick up the watercraft if there is no underlying marine policy.
Intact is not normally a market for this type of high speed exposure. It could be because Gary has a long term and valuable relationship (since 1991) with Intact so they may have agreed to do that one on an exceptional basis only but you have nothing to lose by trying as well.
My 75 mph boat is also insured with Premier Marine.
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01-14-2020, 07:36 PM #24Team Member
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My SS2000 was with Premier but my broker switched to Ogilvy. what about MD Marine? I started to work on a quote with them but they wanted a copy of all potential driver's licenses. My privacy loving brother said no.
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01-14-2020, 09:46 PM #256000 RPM
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Hi Jason long time no talk ! I was hoping you’d see this. Folks, as background, Jason is co-owner of a large insurance brokerage and also is a very experienced high perf boat owner, so is especially qualified to provide advice on this thread. While my input was based on first-hand experience insuring high-perf OB boats in 3 provinces for >20 years I definitely defer to his expertise.
Since this thread is rapidly becoming the “everything you wanted to know about high perf boat insurance in Canada”, I do want to expand a bit on Jason’s feedback.
US insurance providers:
I have no reason to doubt anything Jason says. However, I actually did take out a tunnel boat policy with Michigan-based WWMU many years ago (when, as a student, I didn’t really have any net worth to protect), at Peter Hledin’s (Mr. Skater) direct advice. After gaining some experience and claims-free years with them, I more easily found a Canadian provider. That’s the concept I was getting at, not saying it is the best option.
Last year I had a meeting with a Vancouver based brokerage about insuring an STV. They have links to the same underwriter Jason and Ogilvy and Ogilvy use. Interestingly, he mentioned he has lost multiple BC-based 100+ Mph cat policies to US providers due to Canadians premiums being so high. So people are doing this. I’m not lol - I have 2 good Canadian underwritten policies that I’m sticking with
Umbrellas policies:
Jason is again correct. I did know the limitation but should have explained better. If you can’t get as much liability as you want from the marine policy, consider an umbrella would have been a more complete/better explanation on my part. I have seen some marine providers limit high perf liability policies to 1 million where you probably want 2.
Seeing as we’re digging in deep here, can anybody address the concept of a corporation owning the boat ? How would/could that be insured ? Anything to gain there ?
Matt
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01-15-2020, 10:02 AM #26
Matt
A coroporation owing the a hi perf boat at the moment is next to impossible to get a new policy. The reason for that is under the Law a corporation owes more duty of care to the general public than an individual. So in the case of a liability Claim the courts would hold a Corporation to a higher standard and higher pay outs. The insurance companies know this and have clamped down on boats in company names....... there are also a ton new exculusions around business use and Racing/ Speed tests of any kind that have been put into the polices...... If you haven't read the policy exclusions I suggest you do it will open your eyes.
If you are looking to insure an air entrapment hull in Canada that goes more then 75mph there is simply one market.....MD Marine. Ogilvy, My self.....are all brokers for this company
MD marine purchased The only other Market last year. That was a program written through Northbridge Insurance Through only one broker McMicheal Davis. That progam is done and closed.
Getting back to Canadians purchasing insurance through a US provider..... Yes for sure it can be done. I am sure any US provider will be happy to take your money. However come claim time (not talking a hole in the boat or lower unit damage....I am talking Killing someone...Hitting a swinmmer........driving your boat over a canoe filled with kids at summer camp Blowing your boat over with your best friend in it and seriously hurting them) There is no enforceable obligation for that company to pay out a claim in a jurisdiction (canada) that it is not Licensed to sell insurance. This leaves that Insurance company the option when you are hit will a multi million dollar law suit to just say thanks and walk way.
Faced with the choice of refunding you your $1000 Premium or paying Millions......what do you think they will choose......
Ok SO since I am going on a bit of a rant I will continue...... We all have very specialized hobby here it is a super small community, The general public including most insurance brokers/agents/ Companies don't know anything about our equipment. They couldn't tell you the difference between an 18 fourwinns and STV or 46 skater.......Make sure that you disclose everything to them........even if they don't ask..... NEVER GIVE AN INSURANCE COMPANY THE ABILITY TO SAY YOU DIDN'T TELL US......HAD WE KNOWN WE WOULD NEVER HAVE COVERED IT HERE IS YOUR PREMIUM BACK .......GOOD LUCK WITH THE MILLION DOLLAR LAW SUIT
The biggest part of having Liability insurance is that it picks up all of your Legal defense. The Limit on your policy of $1 000 000 or $2 000 000 is for settlements or Judgements only........SO when you look at the premium that is being charged Lets say for my 24 Skater with 300xs.....I am flying dowin the lake at 118mph in a $70 000 asset over an ever changing surface with no seat belts or saftey gear....... (life Jackets of course) Its not a bad bet that I might need all that coverage.....
Lets Say I hit a wakeboard boat wave and blow the boat over here is how your coverage responds
Boat totaled $70 000
Boat salvaged from 100Ft of water $25 000
Environmental Fines $10 000
3 passangers in hospital with major injuries
Lawsuit for From the injured parties
Legal defense cost.......................................$100 00+
Findings and Judgement $2 000 000
Total Claim Paid by insurance $2 205 000
when you look at all of that (things are different in the US) The policy is worth every penny.......
But again boat insurance is not mandatory in Canada so you are free to risk it Don't ever say it won't happen to me because I see it everydayJason
18 Talon SOLD
XR 2002 SOLD
2011 STV RR 300pm SOld
24 Skater 300xs
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01-15-2020, 10:26 AM #27
Most of the market Clamp down is due to results. Claims across the board have sky rocketed,,,, and the insurance companies were being greedy in many lines of business trying to attract new clients at discount rates....they have created a rate inadequacy across the board trying to win market share. Claims have out stripped premiums and its not in any single line of business, but what happens is that the insurers clamp down on the higher risk stuff first. Canada has seen some extrem weather fires floods .....that we are not used to and these events have not yet been built into the rating systems because there hasn't been enough claim data from the past...... it will level out in the next 12-18 months and the insurers will open their doors again.... We see this more often in trucking and Taxi insurance....
Jason
18 Talon SOLD
XR 2002 SOLD
2011 STV RR 300pm SOld
24 Skater 300xs
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01-15-2020, 10:12 PM #286000 RPM
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Good info Jason, thanks. I’m with MD and have made peace with their rates for the reasons you explained.
Matt
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01-16-2020, 11:11 AM #29
Thanks for a meaningful and informative thread.
18 Talon/2.4 carb SOLD
26 Deck Boat/250 Merc
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01-16-2020, 12:15 PM #30
Thanks for all the info Jason! Really interesting stuff here. So what exactly is the process if you don't have liability insurance for instance. Let's say someone gets hurt and is in the hospital for an extended period and is on lifetime medication. So who exactly is coming after you? The person themselves? The Canadian government for hospital fees? I really don't know very much about the liability side of insurance. I guess that is because I've never needed to, thank goodness.
(sorry for this sidebar, I'm not intending on derailing the thread, maybe just looking for info on WHY someone should be insured regardless of their boats value. There are LOTS of people out here without ANY sort of insurance on the water)
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