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Thread: VP c16 vs q16 fuel
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12-04-2019, 10:28 AM #1
VP c16 vs q16 fuel
Pros and cons to each? Running in F1 application... any input would be appreciated!
15.5 cobra 175 hp merc - sold
18 tahiti tiger O/B 200 hp merc - sold
19 STV euro - 2.5 merc DRAG
Seebold F1 tunnel - 2.0 F1/champ
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12-04-2019, 04:04 PM #26000 RPM
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C16 won’t kill you
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Capt.Insane-o, mach351 liked this post
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12-04-2019, 04:05 PM #3
q is nuclear waste in a can.
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mach351, Michael J Giesler liked this post
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12-04-2019, 04:28 PM #4
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12-04-2019, 04:29 PM #5
If you like renal failure and cancer sure.
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12-04-2019, 06:30 PM #66000 RPM
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Q16 is rough on ya. ANd c16 is a lot of octane. How much compression you running ?
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12-04-2019, 07:16 PM #715.5 cobra 175 hp merc - sold
18 tahiti tiger O/B 200 hp merc - sold
19 STV euro - 2.5 merc DRAG
Seebold F1 tunnel - 2.0 F1/champ
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12-06-2019, 08:56 AM #86000 RPM
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Brook calling Q16 “gasoline” is a bit of a stretch - at least a third of it’s composition is an ether that’s there as an additional oxygen carrier. I’m not sure what the fuel tech rules are in WC- F1 but that could be a fail at tech.
Also, by no means am I a Merc EFI expert, but I believe you would need to increase the fuel curve considerably to avoid leaning out when running Q16 due to this additional oxygen in the fuel.
For the record, more traditional race fuels aren’t exactly Campbell’s soup from a toxicology standpoint bit I’ll leave it at that.
Matt
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12-06-2019, 09:22 AM #915.5 cobra 175 hp merc - sold
18 tahiti tiger O/B 200 hp merc - sold
19 STV euro - 2.5 merc DRAG
Seebold F1 tunnel - 2.0 F1/champ
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12-06-2019, 10:02 AM #10Screaming And Flying!
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It’s still gasoline. It’s not a superfuel that immediately causes a 3rd arm to grow. It’s oxygenated with MTBE which is also used in pump gas, just at lower levels. It’s worth a tenth in a 800 ft drag race without too much trouble. I richened my ecu 3 numbers when I ran it over a regular 112.
This stuff is starting to reach mythical levels, right up there with the FF 200 blockErik Kiser
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eli thanked for this postMichael J Giesler liked this post
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12-06-2019, 10:53 AM #11
OK .. I'll call it gasoline ..
It is less than 10% oxygenated, not 33+%
It smell's like rotten taterz ..
The Q-16reg has a high load of MBTE , not the standard Q-16
We used it in a nitrous car I was tuning. Put the tune-up in a very small window.
It's still a heavy fuel, .720 so that and the added air demanded a heavier fuel load than I was used to . I'm more of a .699-.700 kind of guy. Like I told the boss man, if we need more air .. I'll put a bigger nitrous jet in the second gun ..
Running NA , it is a few more percent, if your strugglin to make power ..
I wouldn't start the motor and close the trailer doors
If no one told ya ... I will, racin's dangerous ..
Worrying about leaded/oxy fuels knockin a few day's off your life ... ?? Better not go outside, might get run over by a bus or a plane might fall out of the sky and konk ya on the head ..
https://vpracingfuels.com/product/q16/
Go stand in the pits when they light a fueler off and seat the clutch ...
CH3NO2 atom .. my what big red oxygen molecules you have ..
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12-06-2019, 06:13 PM #12
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12-06-2019, 08:25 PM #13Screaming And Flying!
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Straight Q16 on 240 lbs of compression
Erik Kiser
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12-07-2019, 01:35 AM #146000 RPM
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Brook, glad you got the information you were looking for. Clearly you've done your homework.
If you're ever in Calgary again shoot me a PM, I don't think we've yakked since you picked up your Euro from Jimmy.
Chaz,
I'm glad you chimed in, I always learn something (or a lot) from your posts, and usually get some chuckles at the same time. I did not realize there were two versions of Q16: "plain Q16" (just listed as Q16 on VP's site) and "Q16 Reg" as you indicated. You are correct, they have different ether ingredients. The US safety data sheet for "Q16" lists ethyl tertiary butyl ether (ETBE, but listed under a synonym chemical name) at 55%-60% as the oxygenate. The US SDS for "Q16 Reg" does indicate MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether, but again under a different name) as the oxygenate as you indicated, at right around 50%. My "gasoline" comments (which admittedly could have been put into a better context) was partly referring to the dramatically higher oxygenate content than typical motor gasolines (i.e. E10 regular at 10%). 50+% oxygenates is a ton.
Here's what's interesting: the information in my post was based on the plain "Q16" Canadian SDS which is also available on VP's website. The compositional information listed on that SDS is a lot different than the US version. It differs even further from gasoline since it does not list a hydrocarbon blend as an ingredient. It actually says Q16 is just a 3-component blend of ETBE, iso-octane, and pentane (to get it to light off easily) - all that actually sounds kind of like the toluene-based Turbo F1 fuel from the 1980s. So either one of the SDSs is wrong or they are selling a different version of Q16 in Canada.
The main reason I wanted to reply to this thread was the feedback on the perceived health hazard versus the odour. Unfortunately, the linkage between a chemical's odour and health risk is not always reliable. For example, there are very hazardous chemicals with very high "odour thresholds", which means you can't actually smell it until it is at concentration that could be very hazardous. On the other hand, there are other substances with mild, or even pleasant odours, that are significant health risks. The one that came to mind in this Q16/race gas context was benzene. It's present in road gas at usually modest, regulated concentrations, but can be a lot higher in off-road/high-octane fuels. Many people think it smells great, but it is actually a confirmed human carcinogen (increases risk of a type of leukemia). It's easily absorbed across your skin too, likewise with tetraethyl lead.
My point being (and Brook my apologies for de-railing your thread), was that Q16 is not the only race fuel with health hazards. All of them (and associated additives) need to be handled correctly to minimize the health risks. If anybody would like more information on this kind of thing send me a PM.
MattLast edited by MattGreen; 12-07-2019 at 01:46 AM.
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Tomanytoys, Markus thanked for this post
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12-07-2019, 06:21 PM #15
Chaz= thinkin, even cow **** un-leaded will kill ya ...
As this test shows, lead .. appears to be a touch quicker ...
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