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06-20-2019, 12:53 PM #465000 RPM
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With three decades more design and tech? A two stroke platform at this size and weight could be making double the power of this lipstick pig with minimal moving parts. This is the point. Going 4joke is a copout. It's simply easier to borrow automotive tech and slap it on a midsection. Cheap way out for merc and the average boat buyer isn't smart enough to even open the cowl.
I like how everyone totes the reliability of engines most people are still waiting to take delivery of.
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06-20-2019, 01:19 PM #476000 RPM
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Yes, 3 decades and you get 50% more power, multiples more reliability, and vastly easier to operate and maintain. What did you expect?
i think you might be confusing this engine with 7marine.
You are deluding yourself if you think an old high-strung 2-stroke is even in the same league of reliability as a modern 4-stroke.
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06-20-2019, 01:35 PM #485000 RPM
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Your an engineer of what? Cereal boxes?
How is something with exponentially more parts easier to maintain?
How is an engine that at it's most basic only capable of a power stroke every other revolution superior to one capable of twice that? A power stroke every revolution. As its basic design feature the two stroke is twice as powerful.
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06-20-2019, 02:22 PM #49Screaming And Flying!
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Diminishing returns, hmmmmm
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06-20-2019, 02:34 PM #50Screaming And Flying!
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It's high end marketing, it's priced accordingly to the application. The smaller of the boats trying to use this niche product are priced out until 'Rude pulls the rug out.
The cutaway pic does look good.Last edited by FMP; 06-20-2019 at 02:37 PM.
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06-20-2019, 03:16 PM #51Supporting Member
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It is blatantly obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and this will be my last response to your repeated lip service. Your quote "cheap way out for Merc." is as far off from an accurate or informed statement could possibly be. "Maybe you should take a drive North and see the facility, foundry, and everything that they have built for this product line and the accessories that support it".
"lipstick pig"-I was afforded the experience to see the team of people behind this project first hand and can tell you that they have developed a product that has huge market demand and people are willing to pay the price for it. They did their job and did it very well.
As for your reliability quote-this project has been in the works for almost a decade and there have been thousands of hours logged "again very ill informed statement".
"As its basic design feature a two stroke is twice as powerful"-If this statement had any accuracy what so ever, there would be no four strokes in racing "again an absolute fools talk"
Your comments directed to Mike who has made a single 400R end up being very fast and consistently improves its performance #s "again very low I.Q. stereotype statements and responses".
How much faster have you made your boat run in the last 2 years (you have had decades to figure it out and you are at the end of the road?)-what happened to "THE RACE NEVER STOPS"--that is what Mercury is living up to.
This last statement from me is an offer for you to consider and put your money where your mouth is. There will soon be an Allison SS rigged with a 4 cyl. 4 stroke motor that will make you run and hide with your tail between your legs. Its not mine but I will be willing to front him the cost to come down for a river run and embarrass you repeatedly in front of all that are in attendance. You let me know just what confidence level you are willing to spend to prove that a four stroke on pump fuel and less displacement will not run around you and then I will determine if you have any substance to your talk. I am not holding my breath for a response and hope that you give it some thought before coming up with an uninformed knee jerk response like all of your others.
Joe
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engineermike, HydroSkreamin thanked for this postdavemvegas, robert jordan, HydroSkreamin, Brad Zastrow, Robby321, Rigaud, JUPITER PULSARE, Z06man liked this post
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06-20-2019, 03:21 PM #52Screaming And Flying!
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Let's start another thread on this Allison with a 4 , 4. What details?
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06-20-2019, 03:31 PM #53Banned
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06-20-2019, 03:38 PM #54Supporting Member
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Its not mine but I know the guys involved and it will come out in time. It will be a great way to display a four stroke lightweight version. All of this stuff is just getting started and its a very opportune time to be involved in our hobby.
Joe
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06-20-2019, 03:58 PM #551) 1995 14' Bayliner Restoration <--Click
2) Home-Made Tunnel-Boat Project <--Click
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06-20-2019, 04:02 PM #56Screaming And Flying!
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So it's a Merc, 4 cyl? SS2000 type and it does 75
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06-20-2019, 04:05 PM #57Banned
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06-20-2019, 06:27 PM #586000 RPM
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Because oil changes are pretty easy and that's about all you have to do. Just because it has more parts doesn't mean they all need maintaining. Quite the opposite in this case, actually.
Example: I used to run 2-stroke PWC's. Far from zero maintenance. At one point, it was averaging a break-down every three trips to the river. Later, it was every trip. Fast forward to today...I've owned three 4-stroke PWC's. They just start every time with the touch of a button and go years with no breakdowns. My current ski is 8 years old and I still use it several times/month. I've changed the oil a few times and the plugs twice. That's it! And it's one of those super-complicated DOHC supercharged 4-strokes.
Let me break this down for ya'. Next time the heads are off of your 2.5, take a look in that cylinder. Turn the crank until you see the exhaust port start to open. How far down is the piston? About half-way, right? So you've let the pressure out early and sacrificed half of the power stroke! Do the same with a 4-stroke and you see that you get to use nearly all of the power stroke before letting the pressure out.
Now, consider that there's no practical way to pressurize the 2-stroke cylinder significantly above atmospheric pressure using supercharging for the very same reason...all that extra air escapes out the exhaust port before after the transfers close. 4-stroke, however, can trap pressurized air from a supercharger in the cylinder because there's no way out.
So, a 2-stroke might have twice the power strokes, but a 4-stroke has twice as long of a power stroke and can benefit from twice the air density from supercharging, capisce?
If we're talking about power/cid, compare the 400R to the S3000. They are roughly the same displacement, but the 400R is a 7000 rpm, 89 octane, low-maintenance, easy starting, smooth idling, emissions compliant, fuel efficient, very easy-to-live-with motor. The S3000 is close to the same displacement, but a high-strung 9000++ rpm, high-maintenance, rough idling, race-gas guzzling race engine that could never be sold today...and makes nearly 100 hp less!
That said, I really believe this 450R is just the start. It's only making 98 hp/liter while the 400R is making 154! That motor has WAY more in it. Do some quick math on that and your jaw will drop.
Tell me this...how come every time an interesting thread on 4-strokes is posted, all the 2-stroke guys feel the need to come in and crap all over it? I see all kinds of threads on stuff I don't like and I'm not interested in....I just don't feel the need to go in and mess it up for them.Last edited by engineermike; 06-20-2019 at 06:31 PM.
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06-20-2019, 06:32 PM #595000 RPM
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If mercury dumped piles of money into a new facility to make horse drawn buggies, you'd be the first blowhard on here talking about how big the horses ball's were. Still the cheap way out. Take existing car tech and roll it into an outbound package. That's imitation not innovation.
The team that though that up ought to be ashamed of there lipstick pig.
Two stroke does twice the amount of work in the same amount of time. This is physics, might be a bit over your head but check it out some time. It was simply a bad match for the needs of automobiles due to cooling and oiling issues [could have been solved with dfi].
Really my IQ? I find that comical as I know that number. I know it because people thought it high enough to be worth knowing. I doubt you can say the same. I just hope it's still with me when I'm your age.
I believe I already invited you out to the bay. Any 4joke you can float on an SS. Against my 200 fishing motor.
And I don't think anyone who has read more than 4 of your post doubts your willingness to throw money around. So pay the guys way who is trying to make a 4 joke fun. I'd love to meet him.
You still haven't answered my question from another thread. How much does mercury pay you to spew this propaganda? Or are you just that much of a doe eyed groupie fan boy?
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06-20-2019, 06:50 PM #60Screaming And Flying!
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Some people are just butt hurt because they can't afford a new merc. And take it out on the ones that can by berating the product.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
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