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Thread: Another vertex ring issue
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04-10-2019, 11:26 AM #1Member
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Another vertex ring issue
94 175xri. Started checking ring end gaps last night & found them running large as others have stated recently. I have 5 holes at 3.516 & #6 at 3.518 for whatever reason. Ring gaps in the small holes are .028. big hole is 032. Merc spec for their rings is .018 to .025. not really wanting to spend 2 grand plus to build a motor with worn out rings. I called promarine & talked to their tech guy & he says up to .029 is ok. I didn't agree & he said he'd look into options & get back to me. Has anyone else having this problem resolved it? I'm 99% sure I'm not assembling this engine with that big of a gap.
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04-10-2019, 02:10 PM #2Supporting Vendor
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Sorry for your piston ring end gap issues , JFYI Ive have GREAT luck with mid grade PRO MARINE pistons if I have a customer that’s gonna “lean” on a motor I send pistons to 300 below in Dicatur Il to be cryogenic treated then to Marles to be top pinned always had good end gap numbers works for me and mine ..
JaybJay @ JSRE
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04-10-2019, 02:37 PM #3Member
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Thanks Jay. I specifically asked for the vertex due to the good reviews here. I didn't really start seeing this issue mentioned until after I received my kit. I'm goin to try to find a set of Merc rings locally just to see how they gap. If they're good, I'm not opposed to Merc pistons & rings if they're still available.
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04-10-2019, 03:08 PM #4
I haven’t messed with vertex, always used the pro v pistons, and wisecos, so don’t have any experience with them to know. Does vertex have a tech line? It’s possible the gap is normal due to design of piston/ring location that causes more heat to be applied to ring therefore needing more of a gap. If this is the case, then there is no issue. Someone in tech support should be able to answer this question.
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Forkin' Crazy liked this post
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04-10-2019, 03:35 PM #5Member
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I did consider this is an intentional vertex thing, but I figured if they were going to stray that far from published specs they would include some kind of special sheet. Nothing in the box other than piston, rings, pin & clips. Found a number for vertex North America & called them. They know nothing & directed me to promarine. Asked the guy at vertex if the Mercury outboard pistons were made by vertex. He had no idea. Again directed me to promarine. Pretty sketch outfit so far.
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04-10-2019, 04:06 PM #6
Talk to todd At pro marine
Last edited by eli; 04-10-2019 at 04:09 PM.
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04-10-2019, 04:54 PM #7Member
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Think that's who I talked to earlier. Waiting for a call back. Didn't sound promising though. Looks to me like gap increases 2 thousandths for ever 1 thousandth increase in bore size. 20 over would probably come out in spec but they're not offered. He was looking for 30 over for me to modify to fit. I think you'd have to completely remove the pin relief to use those.
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04-10-2019, 05:30 PM #8
Well that's a misleading thread title if I ever saw one .
Another Vertex ring issue .. ??? Because ... they don't fit the way you want them to in your loose bores ... ??? That's the rings fault ???
Top Pin them ????
Call Todd @ Pro ???
Either of those going to put meat back in your cylinders ??? ( really wasn't a question )
The 5 holes that are + .001 will be fine.
The last one , have it honed to 3.521 and buy a WSM +.020 kit and put it together.
You'll have a good motor that all 6 are loose by .001 which isn't a bad thing. As far as ring gaps go, better a mile wide than a red **** hair too tight ..
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04-10-2019, 05:52 PM #9Supporting Vendor
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100% of the steel sleeved motors I build are always start off bored to the next size over to give the customer new bore meat and round holes I also end gap the new rings , I have a nylon mandrel that pushes the ring in square with the deck to get an accurate measurement , you also can load the lower ring lan with old ring turn piston upside down and shove the new ring in and square up the ring on piston square with deck if I find a tight end gap I use a wet rock to cut the end gap to what I require , .016”- .018” ...
Works for me 25 years building em !!!
Jay
Jay @ JSRE
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04-10-2019, 05:56 PM #10
I’m a thinkin if more than one of ya are both coming up with gaps in the 0.030 range, undoubtedly they ain’t all boxed wrong and that’s what they supposed to be. Yeah #6 is getting in the out of spec range and really needs to be bored. It all depends on piston design, if they require a larger gap because of the amount of heat being transferred to them to prevent ring butt and you tighten the gap up, off the top of the piston comes. The old Keith Black pistons where this way, requiring more than normal ring gaps because of piston design
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04-10-2019, 06:05 PM #11Member
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The title of my thread is as it is because I've recently seen a couple other threads with people having the same problem with the same rings. I wondered if anyone found a solution to the problem & just didn't bother posting the solution. The block had been bored & honed to Mercury's published specs by a highly regarded local performance shop, one of only 2 places in Southwest Michigan that has the capability. 1 through 5 measure exactly 3.516, Mercury's published spec. #6 is 3.518. not sure why it ended up that size but I told the machinist I'm good with a little extra on #6 so no harm. So the bores are not sloppy, 5 of the 6 are exactly to Mercury spec. Just trying to clarify what I'm working with.
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04-10-2019, 06:12 PM #12Screaming And Flying!
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Did you get an exact measurement of the piston tops just below the crown before machining?
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04-10-2019, 06:42 PM #13Member
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I did not. The Merc manual said measure half inch up from bottom of the skirt 90 degrees to the pin. New pistons measure half a thousanths under Merc pistons specs at 3.5085. Merc spec is 3.509. I've noticed that some people keep referencing 2.5 bore spec at 3.515. my factory manual states 3.516. not sure where this discrepancy comes from.
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04-10-2019, 06:53 PM #14Screaming And Flying!
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The thought was that the pistons are finished smaller to provide some extra clearance for 3.515 exactly. This would give plenty of gap at 3.515" and closer to what you have by giving even more piston clearance with 3.3518". You likely could have finished under 3.515" with ample clearance and the gap you wanted.
Last edited by FMP; 04-10-2019 at 06:58 PM.
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04-10-2019, 07:09 PM #15Member
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Sounds that way. Keep in mind, the other bores are 3.516 per the merc factory manual that I have. Those cylinders are coming out at .028. if my formula for .002 increased gap for each .001 increase in bore is applied to a 3.515 bore, I'm still looking at .026 gap, one thou over Mercury's max spec of .025.
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