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Thread: 300R vs 300X

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    A 2018 Mustang years before the wty expired ... Psstt , it's mid 2019 by my calendar. It's ok , I'm not good with dates and times either ...
    Bought the car 2/2018, received supercharger 6/2018 and installed right away. 5 yr powertrain warranty would have expired 2/2023. So ya, I installed the supercharger approximately 4.5 years before the warranty would have expired. What are you trying to prove by pointlessly nitpicking this? Kinda' reminds me of the time you asked how many payments I had left on my 400R.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    Two things I can assure you of : Not a word of it was "leaked to "Super Ford Magazine" until it was ready to be stocked on Jegs and Summits shelves.
    That's what they decided to do and that's all fine but not everyone does it that way. Lethal Performance and FordNXT were releasing info and dyno runs of prototype supercharger kits months before they were available to the public. By the time they went on sale they had generated all sorts of interest...but whatever. Again, pointless nitpicking.

  2. #137
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    This thread started out as 300R VS 300X. I now own both, have run both, have run single and twins with both. The bottom line is that if I had the money, I would replace all of my X and XS motors with 300Rs. They do everything better and yes we will be able to get the power upgraded soon, we will be able to get 15" midsections, and the aftermarket cowls are in the works as well. I was never a fan of the 400R (for small or twin motor applications). 1. because I couldn't justify the expense, 2. because I never saw one run better then a single X on any application, 3. because of the lack of torque "seat of the pants acceleration", and 4. because of the additional weight.

    The 300R has proven all 4 reasons that I didn't like the I-6 to stand corrected and completely changed my thoughts. Randy (Wildman) Corson and I were in agreement and both anti four stroke when it came to small hull performance but he has also done a 180 degree turn now that he has experienced several 300R applications.

    I suggest that everyone who has commented negatively about this new product go experience them first hand before you hit the keyboard again and look even more foolish-they are that good and going to be even better in the very near future.

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    Joe

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  4. #138
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    small hull? What's your idea of a big hull?

  5. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPEROG View Post
    This thread started out as 300R VS 300X. I now own both, have run both, have run single and twins with both. The bottom line is that if I had the money, I would replace all of my X and XS motors with 300Rs. They do everything better and yes we will be able to get the power upgraded soon, we will be able to get 15" midsections, and the aftermarket cowls are in the works as well. I was never a fan of the 400R (for small or twin motor applications). 1. because I couldn't justify the expense, 2. because I never saw one run better then a single X on any application, 3. because of the lack of torque "seat of the pants acceleration", and 4. because of the additional weight.

    The 300R has proven all 3 reasons that I didn't like the I-6 to stand corrected and completely changed my thoughts. Randy (Wildman) Corson and I were in agreement and both anti four stroke when it came to small hull performance but he has also done a 180 degree turn now that he has experienced several 300R applications.

    I suggest that everyone who has commented negatively about this new product go experience them first hand before you hit the keyboard again and look even more foolish-they are that good and going to be even better in the very near future.

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    Joe
    Joe I hear ya loud and clear and have not had the opportunity to run against a 300r powered cat yet. I will admit the performance numbers I am getting from some very reliable sources they are good. I can comment on and agree with what you said regarding the 400r package. For me that motor stock does not get it done against the 300x. I have run against numerous 400r cats. Almost everyone I know is running a tuned computer with the supposed 450hp upgrade to make them even close in acceleration. The concerning thing for me and why I am not 100 percent on board just yet with the 300r is Mother Mercury did a series of test comparisons with 400r vs 300r on the MTI340x. End result was the 400r beat the 300r in acceleration by a tick, was about 4mph faster. That is data holding me back. I agree and have heard going forward that the 300r platform will become the future 350hp, 400hp Mercury O/B and the current inline motor will go away. When they offer a V8 Naturally aspirated 400hp version of the 300r I will be ALL in to repower. Also for those who care the 450hp has a dealer cost in the upper $40,000.00 dollar price range and will weigh more the than the current 400r by a few pounds. It would be nice to see the 300r have a higher redline also. For O/B Cats that package with a 1.60 and 6400rpm limit requires you to have a big pitch prop which is counter productive in acceleration. That is why a 300x is still a beast with 7100rpm redline to work with. Add in a DBR Kit for the 300x and my money is on the 300x package to win on Sundays. I am not stuck in the old times and technology just looking for what works being a performance boater and getting the most for the money.

    Double
    Rigged
    308 Skater w/300xs
    Over-Kill



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  7. #140
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    I guess my last sentence didn't work lol...

    I consider under 20 feet a small hull. As I stated above, I have never seen a "400R" on a small hull outrun a 300X or not have it disturb the balance to where is was a justifiable option.

    A big hull is something that can handle 3 or more of the 400R motors "center consoles" which they have proven to work well when rigged in multiples.

    For the midsize cats "the stuff that I love" the 400R never impressed me for the weight and cost.

    Joe

  8. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Rigged View Post
    Joe I hear ya loud and clear and have not had the opportunity to run against a 300r powered cat yet. I will admit the performance numbers I am getting from some very reliable sources they are good. I can comment on and agree with what you said regarding the 400r package. For me that motor stock does not get it done against the 300x. I have run against numerous 400r cats. Almost everyone I know is running a tuned computer with the supposed 450hp upgrade to make them even close in acceleration. The concerning thing for me and why I am not 100 percent on board just yet with the 300r is Mother Mercury did a series of test comparisons with 400r vs 300r on the MTI340x. End result was the 400r beat the 300r in acceleration by a tick, was about 4mph faster. That is data holding me back. I agree and have heard going forward that the 300r platform will become the future 350hp, 400hp Mercury O/B and the current inline motor will go away. When they offer a V8 Naturally aspirated 400hp version of the 300r I will be ALL in to repower. Also for those who care the 450hp has a dealer cost in the upper $40,000.00 dollar price range and will weigh more the than the current 400r by a few pounds. It would be nice to see the 300r have a higher redline also. For O/B Cats that package with a 1.60 and 6400rpm limit requires you to have a big pitch prop which is counter productive in acceleration. That is why a 300x is still a beast with 7100rpm redline to work with. Add in a DBR Kit for the 300x and my money is on the 300x package to win on Sundays. I am not stuck in the old times and technology just looking for what works being a performance boater and getting the most for the money.
    Ron,

    Its all coming-

    Joe

  9. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPEROG View Post
    Ron,

    Its all coming-

    Joe
    I know! Just hope I live to use it!!!!! LOL

    Double
    Rigged
    308 Skater w/300xs
    Over-Kill



  10. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Rigged View Post
    I know! Just hope I live to use it!!!!! LOL
    We still have a bunch of good days ahead-"glass half full" always...

    Joe

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    Never understood why Mercury racing never made an Alien cowl 15" mid 300xs like there using now on the superstock boats.

    Other than the mid section almost a parts bin build for Mercury.

    I thought the 400ros was going to be something, but I don't think its working out all that great.

    A 300r with a 15" Mid, a little more race inspired cowl. Just maybe.

    Just guessing Corporate logic will stop that idea.

  12. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by engineermike View Post
    The problem with using hp/cid as a metric for boat motors is that with only 1 gear the engine has to have a very broad usable power range and WOT-for-hours-on-end reliability. The SB4 is only making ~65% of peak torque at 2500 rpm and I don't think designed for constant WOT use for 2000 hours. We all know that production cars are making 100+/- hp/liter NA, the SB4 as well. But without the advantage of supercharging, 4-stroke boat motors are making 50-70 hp/liter due to the criticality of low-end torque and reliability reasons. VVT and multiple forward gears can help the situation. Note that cars seem to be around 100 hp/liter now in high performance production applications, but street bikes (where low-end torque and longevity are ess critical than a sports car, even) are making double that. I'll be surprised if we see NA 4-stroke boat motors making more than 75 hp/liter without a significant change in technology.
    Not sure why you picked the dip at 2500rpm, but at 2k it makes 70% and by 3500 85% which hardly makes it like a pro stock engine. A stock SHO makes 80hp/L and run to 7500rpm with a tune, but it has VCT like your 5.0. I like the idea of an outboard being as simple and light as possible, the larger displacement 4-stroke makes more lowend torque than the 2-stroke so I don’t see the concern there. The problem is it weighs more and has a larger lower unit with more drag than the old 2-strokes that makes it more sensitive to speed on lighter hulls. Let the V8 run to 7k rpm with the proper valve events like the 400R does and it’ll out run it every day. The 400R with its supercharger doesn’t make much more peak torque than the 300R according to the carb reports, which are backed up by the real world where it only out accelerates it on the topend. Anyone know of any updates on the below?
    https://www.wavetowave.com/home/2018...tboard-revs-up
    Last edited by PRE-Z06; 06-13-2019 at 09:38 AM.

  13. #146
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    EVERY MAN HAS TWO LIVES...THE SECOND ONE BEGINS WHEN HE REALIZES THAT HE HAS JUST ONE

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  15. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by engineermike View Post
    Bought the car 2/2018, received supercharger 6/2018 and installed right away. 5 yr powertrain warranty would have expired 2/2023. So ya, I installed the supercharger approximately 4.5 years before the warranty would have expired. What are you trying to prove by pointlessly nitpicking this? Kinda' reminds me of the time you asked how many payments I had left on my 400R.



    That's what they decided to do and that's all fine but not everyone does it that way. Lethal Performance and FordNXT were releasing info and dyno runs of prototype supercharger kits months before they were available to the public. By the time they went on sale they had generated all sorts of interest...but whatever. Again, pointless nitpicking.
    Yawwnnn ... So why are you continuing on ... ???

    About others accomplishments .. I supercharged many 5.0 rustangs and trucks thru-out the early-mid 90's .. nothin new there ..

    I started a thread for you , even put the 400R first .. I was hoping to learn sump-tin

    ______________________________________________________________________________


    JPEROG
    This thread started out as 300R VS 300X. I now own both, have run both, have run single and twins with both. The bottom line is that if I had the money, I would replace all of my X and XS motors with 300Rs.


    Thank you for making point : # 1 on many people agenda, including mine.
    How much are they ... ? $ XX,XXX.oo They look really nice, but, I'll have to think about it .

    Translation: Are you out of your ******* mind ...

    I suggest that everyone who has commented negatively about this new product go experience them first hand before you hit the keyboard again and look even more foolish-they are that good and going to be even better in the very near future.


    Point #2 Every car, boat, motorcycle, airplane, toaster-oven , dishwasher, etc. mfg today put's out a product that has been thru many departments before being released to the public. I have no doubt they have refined this V-8 outboard to behave as civil as any other of today's products. No need in a 4 stroke lecture, I have owned one or more of them since 1966.
    Can you tell me the factory part # for a 280 replacement sleeve ?
    Certainly, a company as big and as smart as Brunswick didn't forget to offer one as well as a service bulletin on how to replace it. Their stance .. replace block
    I don't think your quite old enough to have lived thru the OPEC crisis of the 70's. I put gas in my car, siphoned it out and rode my motorcycle. Many others bought Chevy Vega's. Call it what you want, Aluminum/silicon crystal, Hyperutectic, Mercasil or a host of others. Looks great on paper, in real life proved to be .. I won't call anyone a fool, I'll just say .. not so much.
    I can understand your "excitment" , however a few dozen laps around the lake is not like recalling what owning one for 5 years is about.
    Maybe bone stock they will be OK, maybe not. With talk of stepping on them reminds me of countless times at the track where guys have put 100 horse plate on a KB hyper-U piston kit. I told them, dude , that **** won't take 10 HP and the timing all the way in the back seat .. two hits later .. JUNK .
    But look don't take my word on it .. I'm just an old fool Fixin ta buy me some of that 25% silicon weldin rod fer patchin holes in them new-fangled blocks ..

    A lil basic info :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypereutectic_piston

    Chaz = thinkin, JP .. Sho you wuz right .. these antique 3.4 / 3.6 L conversions power wheelie like an ol azz CR 500 - YZ 490 Ba-Ruuupppppp

  16. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    Yawwnnn ... So why are you continuing on ... ???
    You took us down this path, buddy. In your post #132, you said if you were wrong about something you would take it back and apologize. I've shown you were wrong about several things so I was looking for that retraction you promised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    About others accomplishments .. I supercharged many 5.0 rustangs and trucks thru-out the early-mid 90's .. nothin new there ..
    I see you missed the point on that one as well. I'm in no way bragging about supercharging my mustang or calling it any kind of accomplishment. I'm simply showing that I'm not afraid to modify something that's new and within the warranty period, as you claimed. See my first point above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    I started a thread for you , even put the 400R first ..
    I can't wait to see the graphs you post up. Me? As I said...I'm not the pioneer and never claimed to be...just an early adopter. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by creating that thread, other than your disdain for the new 4-strokes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    How much are they ... ? $ XX,XXX.oo They look really nice, but, I'll have to think about it .

    About the same price as the old 2.5 SS, inflation adjusted of course.
    Last edited by engineermike; 06-13-2019 at 01:27 PM.

  17. #149
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    JPEROG
    This thread started out as 300R VS 300X. I now own both, have run both, have run single and twins with both. The bottom line is that if I had the money, I would replace all of my X and XS motors with 300Rs.

    Thank you for making point : # 1 on many people agenda, including mine.
    How much are they ... ? $ XX,XXX.oo They look really nice, but, I'll have to think about it .

    Translation: Are you out of your ******* mind ...


    Thats the same thing people were saying in 98' when I bought my first set of 280s and told everyone how much better they were then the 260s. That difference is nothing compared to what we are talking about today. I might be out of my *******mind but so is everyone else that has run them and that is why I can't get another set until Dec. or Jan. These motors are user friendly enough to do 200 mile day trips and not have to carry fuel additives, oil, and everything else that makes the old stuff a pain. I guess I am getting old and seeing the value in "no hassle performance". Don't think for a minute that I am getting rid of my X stroker stuff but its only because I can't afford to...One of these with 1.60 gear and slight limiter modification would be a welcomed change for my STV, Allison, or Skater but its not in the card$.

    Joe

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  19. #150
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    can you get a 4s chainsaw yet?

    or only big and heavy ones
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ROlobV2T00
    Last edited by powerabout; 06-13-2019 at 07:04 PM.

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