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  1. #1
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    Charger Foxfire 185v Looking for more

    I have a 1988 charger foxfire 185v with a evinrude 150xp, 6" jack plate, about 3" pad height, raker stainless 14.5x22, running at about 55mph gps at approx 5100rpm seeing similar boats get about 60-65 i know i need to install a water pressure gauge but im wondering if a prop change or re work may help me some i know i have a couple more hundred rpm before the limiter any help would be great would love to see this boat run 60-65mph. Thanks David.

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  3. #2
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    David, getting to 60 should be within reach and not break the bank. First, let me state that I have never owned nor driven the Charger model you have. I do have 13 years of experience with my 1986 Johnson GT150 and carbon copy to your XP.

    Is this your first experience with this level of power and speed potential? I ask because the #1 mistake I see new owners make is "too much trim". Adding a jackplate should replace leverage to the pad and permit higher mounting height. As long as the jackplate is used correctly and used to reduce the wetted surface of the gearcase and NOT to over-trim and push the already heavy stern deeper into the water and at the wrong angle - speed can increase.

    Your engine makes good power up to about 5,800 rpm. It is not going to pull strong above that and you really don't want or need it too. The Raker is a great prop and your 5,100 rpm suggest to me that you've either got low compression or you've got the prop buried - either too low or it's pointing downward due to that improper use of trim and not pushing the boat straight forward. Keep in mind that water is 814 times more dense than air. You'll get maximum speed if the boat's pad/hull is set-up to run at a 4 degrees positive to the surface and your propshaft is parallel to the water's surface. Any thrust pointing downward to raise the bow is over-trimmed. Judicial and documented changes to set-up using a water pressure gauge, tachometer, and GPS (phone app or any type) will get you the best you can have. I had a heavy, resin-rich Astroglass 178V running 68 mph with a 24" Raker.

    Note too that getting every pound of gear and equipment out of the boat will help too. I went to a 12V Johnson trolling motor, a group 24 starting battery, and only 1 group 31 deep cycle trolling battery. Everything out of the front lockers and only what I had to have in the rear-most lockers (weight rearward).

    Here are some crude drawings I made a while back to show the applications I've discussed above. It's fun and something well worth learning as you'll never forget it. Gordon

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Thrust.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	51.7 KB 
ID:	417407Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Gearcase Neutral.JPG 
Views:	14 
Size:	32.4 KB 
ID:	417408Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Gearcase Crabbed.JPG 
Views:	13 
Size:	26.1 KB 
ID:	417409Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Laminar Flow.JPG 
Views:	16 
Size:	35.5 KB 
ID:	417410
    Last edited by Gordon02; 09-04-2018 at 11:12 PM.

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon02 View Post
    David, getting to 60 should be within reach and not break the bank. First, let me state that I have never owned nor driven the Charger model you have. I do have 13 years of experience with my 1986 Johnson GT150 and carbon copy to your XP.

    Is this your first experience with this level of power and speed potential? I ask because the #1 mistake I see new owners make is "too much trim". Adding a jackplate should replace leverage to the pad and permit higher mounting height. As long as the jackplate is used correctly and used to reduce the wetted surface of the gearcase and NOT to over-trim and push the already heavy stern deeper into the water and at the wrong angle - speed can increase.

    Your engine makes good power up to about 5,800 rpm. It is not going to pull strong above that and you really don't want or need it too. The Raker is a great prop and your 5,100 rpm suggest to me that you've either got low compression or you've got the prop buried - either too low or it's pointing downward due to that improper use of trim and not pushing the boat straight forward. Keep in mind that water is 814 times more dense than air. You'll get maximum speed if the boat's pad/hull is set-up to run at a 4 degrees positive to the surface and your propshaft is parallel to the water's surface. Any thrust pointing downward to raise the bow is over-trimmed. Judicial and documented changes to set-up using a water pressure gauge, tachometer, and GPS (phone app or any type) will get you the best you can have. I had a heavy, resin-rich Astroglass 178V running 68 mph with a 24" Raker.

    Note too that getting every pound of gear and equipment out of the boat will help too. I went to a 12V Johnson trolling motor, a group 24 starting battery, and only 1 group 31 deep cycle trolling battery. Everything out of the front lockers and only what I had to have in the rear-most lockers (weight rearward).

    Here are some crude drawings I made a while back to show the applications I've discussed above. It's fun and something well worth learning as you'll never forget it. Gordon

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Thrust.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	51.7 KB 
ID:	417407Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Gearcase Neutral.JPG 
Views:	14 
Size:	32.4 KB 
ID:	417408Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Gearcase Crabbed.JPG 
Views:	13 
Size:	26.1 KB 
ID:	417409Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Laminar Flow.JPG 
Views:	16 
Size:	35.5 KB 
ID:	417410

    Thanks. For the reply. Don't know the exact degree but I'm almost sure the trim is positive the boat does throw up a small roost. I'll get the boat level and measure it. Maybe I'll also do a compression test while I'm at it as well. The boat is pretty much empty recorded speed is with one battery and just about all gear removed. Including trolling motor and both batteries for it.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon02 View Post
    David, getting to 60 should be within reach and not break the bank. First, let me state that I have never owned nor driven the Charger model you have. I do have 13 years of experience with my 1986 Johnson GT150 and carbon copy to your XP.

    Is this your first experience with this level of power and speed potential? I ask because the #1 mistake I see new owners make is "too much trim". Adding a jackplate should replace leverage to the pad and permit higher mounting height. As long as the jackplate is used correctly and used to reduce the wetted surface of the gearcase and NOT to over-trim and push the already heavy stern deeper into the water and at the wrong angle - speed can increase.

    Your engine makes good power up to about 5,800 rpm. It is not going to pull strong above that and you really don't want or need it too. The Raker is a great prop and your 5,100 rpm suggest to me that you've either got low compression or you've got the prop buried - either too low or it's pointing downward due to that improper use of trim and not pushing the boat straight forward. Keep in mind that water is 814 times more dense than air. You'll get maximum speed if the boat's pad/hull is set-up to run at a 4 degrees positive to the surface and your propshaft is parallel to the water's surface. Any thrust pointing downward to raise the bow is over-trimmed. Judicial and documented changes to set-up using a water pressure gauge, tachometer, and GPS (phone app or any type) will get you the best you can have. I had a heavy, resin-rich Astroglass 178V running 68 mph with a 24" Raker.

    Note too that getting every pound of gear and equipment out of the boat will help too. I went to a 12V Johnson trolling motor, a group 24 starting battery, and only 1 group 31 deep cycle trolling battery. Everything out of the front lockers and only what I had to have in the rear-most lockers (weight rearward).

    Here are some crude drawings I made a while back to show the applications I've discussed above. It's fun and something well worth learning as you'll never forget it. Gordon

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Thrust.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	51.7 KB 
ID:	417407Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Gearcase Neutral.JPG 
Views:	14 
Size:	32.4 KB 
ID:	417408Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Gearcase Crabbed.JPG 
Views:	13 
Size:	26.1 KB 
ID:	417409Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Laminar Flow.JPG 
Views:	16 
Size:	35.5 KB 
ID:	417410
    Yes this is my first boat that I've actually had the time to mess with. The jack plate definitely helped get the boat up out of the water as I have pictures from a couple of friends running next to me that show the proof. Also picked up a few mph from before the jack plate was installed.

  6. #5
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    If you have a trim gauge, it can help prevent you from over-trimming. Using a level to get the boat's pad perfectly level and then set the gauge to show you when the cavitation plate is level to the keel/pad of the boat. With it set, you'll know when it's past neutral. Here is another simple drawing I made to show -

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Prop Height.jpg 
Views:	26 
Size:	85.1 KB 
ID:	417414

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon02 View Post
    If you have a trim gauge, it can help prevent you from over-trimming. Using a level to get the boat's pad perfectly level and then set the gauge to show you when the cavitation plate is level to the keel/pad of the boat. With it set, you'll know when it's past neutral. Here is another simple drawing I made to show -

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Prop Height.jpg 
Views:	26 
Size:	85.1 KB 
ID:	417414

    Just did a compression test all cylinders are about 90psi.

  8. #7
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    I still have the original factory shop manual that I bought back in 1986 when I bought my boat. I keep meticulous notes in the back of every manual. In April of 1997 after 10 years of ownership and 158 engine hours (I bought it new), I measured mine at 105~109 on all 6 cylinders. A quick question, did you have the carburetors (throttle) fully open? Make sure the throttle is fully open when checking.

    There are variations in compression gauges, but 15~19 lbs is more than I'd blame on the gauge. The good news is that yours are all even so no seizures of piston damage is evident, but I do think you have ring wear that a simple hone and new rings could fix to "new".

    Gordon

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon02 View Post
    I still have the original factory shop manual that I bought back in 1986 when I bought my boat. I keep meticulous notes in the back of every manual. In April of 1997 after 10 years of ownership and 158 engine hours (I bought it new), I measured mine at 105~109 on all 6 cylinders. A quick question, did you have the carburetors (throttle) fully open? Make sure the throttle is fully open when checking.

    There are variations in compression gauges, but 15~19 lbs is more than I'd blame on the gauge. The good news is that yours are all even so no seizures of piston damage is evident, but I do think you have ring wear that a simple hone and new rings could fix to "new".

    Gordon
    Yes was at wot. There is a local guy selling a 200hp complete powerhead I may pick up for a good. If compression is good I may pick it up and swap the power heads.

  10. #9
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    The 200's of the same period are loopers and completely different engines. Check parts for compatibility. I'm skeptical if the mid sections are the same and if the exhaust adapters will even bolt together. It would make sense to me that the exhaust chest and shaft would be different. If it's an older 200 (pre 1984) then you won't be getting 200 horses as those are crankshaft rated. Gordon

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