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Thread: transom repair questions
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04-16-2018, 02:44 PM #16Screaming And Flying!
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1/4'' transom skin, 3/4'' core. 3/16'' glass, 3/4'' core with 3/16'' glass over to start. Add where the motor bolts, knees, and cross braces go. 1/4'' thick glass where the transom and deck meet inside top area. This area is where they want to separate and crack. Your glass guy may have his own schedule.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
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04-16-2018, 03:20 PM #175000 RPM
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1708 everywhere I assume?
Would you laminate the 2 pieces together first and install it as one chunk or install the first piece, glass/tab in and then go over it with the second piece? Polyester resin OK or should epoxy be used? I'm way out of my realm here so I'm just trying to get an idea of what I should ask of my glass guy.
Thanks.
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04-16-2018, 04:15 PM #18Screaming And Flying!
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I would let the guy doing the job make his own judgment call. If the boat is made of poly then a vinylester type resin is good. ( sticks better than poly) Epoxy is used on any type resin as it will adhere to most anything. Vinyl or epoxy are both great materials. Epoxy will give you a little more working time. But is more expensive. 1708 for vinyl. And 1700 for the epoxy, since no mat is needed. You could stick both trans pcs together ahead of time and then install. Either way is fine.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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04-18-2018, 01:44 AM #195000 RPM
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After a few days of not being able to get ahold of my glass guy...he finally got him to pick up the phone tonight...he's sick, dunno if he'll show up or not, so I'm moving forward.
Planning on picking up some marine ply tomorrow...is the cheap marine grade OK? I assume, since it's not exposed, I don't need any of the mohogany stuff.
Second...obviously the existing glass I'm bonding too (with thickened epoxy) isn't dead flat. I figure a good coat of epoxy should be applied to both mating surfaces, but the objective is to get out the majority of the excess while still having 100% coverage. In the first piece of core, would it be wise to drill holes every 4" or so to allow the excess to "vent" while pulling the wood nice and tight into the existing glass? Are holes enough...or should shallow saw cuts be made to help the epoxy flow? Whatever oozes out will obviously be ground off before the second piece of core material gets bonded.
For clamping, I plan on transferring the 8 existing engine bracket holes to the new plywood before anything gets bonded...and using 1/2-13 allthread with nuts and pieces of wood with shims on both the inside and outside of the transom to pull everything together.
Again, thanks for the help...
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04-18-2018, 04:37 AM #20Screaming And Flying!
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Sounds like you have a good plan going. Saw cuts not needed. Holes are very important. Don"t squeeze too tight. Apply clamping just enough so that epoxy comes out all the holes. Use plenty of putty and use excess to fill edges. Wrap the bolts in tape so they don't become a pia to remove.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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04-20-2018, 12:25 PM #215000 RPM
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Round one did not go well. Glass guy showed up...and I think he mis-represented his skillset. While I ran off to pick up a piece of plywood, he was supposed to finish up the prep...grind out a few areas where we saw some delam and grind 8" or so forward of the transom so we had good glass to bond too. He didn't do anything but make a lousy template. Then he traced it and started cutting the wood while I finished up the prep. The wood ended up being way small...like...at least 2" between the wood and the bottom of the boat all the way around, and about 4" off the gunnels. He said it was fine and we could just fill the gaps with putty. That's where I should have stopped him...but we proceeded...figuring I would make the template for the second piece and do it correctly later. Then he proceeded to put about a 1/16" layer of thickened epoxy on the wood...which he assured me was plenty, and didn't butter up the transom...we clamped things in place, he tried to tab in a few pieces of 1708 with epoxy over a hard edge, which didn't work at all, and he went home. I thought about it for about 30 minutes and ripped it all back out. Good thing too, because about 50% of the transom hadn't been touched with the epoxy.
Part of the problem is that there are fuel tank mounting bulkheads about 12" forward of the transom in the sponsons, and it makes fitting the correct size piece of wood impossible. There are 2 ways to solve this problem, and making the wood the wrong size isn't one of them.
1: Cut the wood into 2 pieces...Put the seam of the first piece off the side on top of one tunnel, then stagger the seam of the second piece on top of the other tunnel. The strength needs to be in the middle, and it will have knee braces. I figure this way, it will have at least the strength of a single piece of 3/4" inch near the sides, and that should be sufficient.
2: Drain the tanks (currently full), remove them and cut out the bulkheads so that I can install proper sized wood in one piece...but that's a bit of a project
Thoughts?
The day wasn't a total bust...I learned quite a bit about what NOT to do.
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04-20-2018, 02:10 PM #22Screaming And Flying!
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Better off on your own sounds like, your doing the crappy prep work... You can cut the wood any way you want and with a good amount of putty you will be fine. Fill in with pieces where ever you need too. The main thing is to get a good bond to the transom. Glass that in and hit it with the next peice with the seams in different places than what you have on the 1st piece. You don't want more than 1/2'' of gap to fill with thickened epoxy anywhere. You can leave the wood short on the bottom of the V and fill that with putty to install the drain tube in for a no rot drain install.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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04-20-2018, 02:19 PM #235000 RPM
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Thanks. I've got a bunch of epoxy to grind out tonight...then decide whether I want to keep going with epoxy or do it with ester. One gallon of west systems was probably enough for the whole job, but now I think 1/4 of that is gone already.
This is a stepped Mod VP deal (similar to a stoker) so I don't have to deal with any drain plugs....they're before the steps.
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04-20-2018, 02:56 PM #24Screaming And Flying!
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IF you want to switch over with the resin, grind out all, and I mean all of the epoxy. Even a little bit will cause problems.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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04-20-2018, 03:50 PM #255000 RPM
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I guess I'll stick with epoxy, but my concern is how many layers of 1700 I'll need to get any sort of thickness out of it...unless I don't need more than a couple layers due to the added strength of this over CSM/cloth...if this is gonna turn into a 3 gallon job, that might get expensive. This has turned into a pain in the A$$...might as well make it expensive too.
I'll head to west marine (only place that's open when I'm off work and weekends) and pick up some 1700 tonight since all I have is 1708, and get after it.
Oh, in my haste to tear things apart in a hurry before it got even more difficult to remove...the router bit that I was using to cut some "pry channels" in the wood decided to walk itself out of the collet and go through the back of the boat in one spot...so I get to do a gel repair too. I'll be an ex-spurt by the end of this.Last edited by lbhsbz; 04-20-2018 at 05:13 PM.
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04-20-2018, 04:26 PM #26Screaming And Flying!
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Your 1708 might (probably) be compatible with the epoxy. Ask when you buy the resin. 1700 will be about 1/8-3/16'' thick per layer. Same with 1708. Very strong stuff so the build up thickness is not as important as good lamination. Two layers will do most jobs strength wise.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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04-21-2018, 11:56 PM #275000 RPM
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Spent the day today grinding and thinking about how I'm gonna do this. I found a bit more delam and ground that out. Took a peak at the "thickener" that the idiot glass guy bought on thursday and it's low density fairing filler...not exactly recommended by West Systems for an adhesive application....so we'll change that up.
I had to grind some delam out of the transom...so it's not really nice and flat at this point I'd like to fill/screed and block sand it to bring it closer to flat before I bond the wood. Since in a few areas I've thinned it quite a bit, I'd like to add a couple layers before I go on with the wood.
Should I fill / flatten first and then apply the glass or put the glass down first and then fill...or does it matter?
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04-22-2018, 07:31 AM #28Screaming And Flying!
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Won't matter. Use fumed silica for structural epoxy thickener.
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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04-22-2018, 03:28 PM #295000 RPM
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Progress...this isn’t so bad. I made my template using a measuring tape and math...only had to trim 2 spots. Cut the wood, expecting figment issues, and it went in as a single piece. Cool. I looked at old tunnel tab bolts and they’re just long enough for 3/4” wood...so I guess that’s what the original was. Instead of doubling up the whole thing, I decided to just double up in the middle, where the engine and knees will tie in.
Laminated 2 pieces together with a unthickened epoxy and piece of 1708 between ‘em, then tabbed over the edges...as soon as that cures, i’ll Start bedding it to the boat.
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04-22-2018, 03:45 PM #30Screaming And Flying!
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Just take your time and it will be better than original. Epoxy is so much stronger than poly....
83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
Rebuild thread:
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
Videos
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Noah Burns liked this post
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