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  1. #1
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    Merc - Yammie- who copied who?

    As I torn down a late 90s yammie 150 recently it seemed like deja vue. There were a lot of things were very similar to a 2.5 merc- then I got to rod cap bolts- uses same 12 point socket- Similar stuff all the way to things like bolt hidden under trim tab at rear of lower to mid.
    Who copied who?

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    Subscribed. I know I've bout fuel pumps and things of that nature for small 4 stroke merc and comes in yammie packaging

  3. #3
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    Dick Steckbaure, A engineer who worked at Mercury Back in the days that the first v-6 Merc's were on the drawing board told me that Merc RD took a Yamaha 350 rd motorcycle witch was a two stroke, took it apart and mapped the porting in it. He went on to say that he believed they used the port map on the v-6 proto type. Weather it remained the same into the production engine he was not sure. As for coping each other Merc and Yamaha were working to gather at one point, and that what was the start of the Mariner line of outboards. So I think that the two companies work closer together than one would think
    Last edited by wogi; 03-23-2018 at 10:53 AM.
    1994 Brad Collins Mirage Jag.with 1990 2.4 BP E.F.I Offshore

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  5. #4
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    Not according to Jerry Hale, original designer/engineer for the Mercury V-6. It was a Maico or some other German/Austrian dirt bike that the original porting was mapped from.

    Dont know what happened to the thread Jerry did on the development of the first V-6 Merc. Can’t seem to find it, hope it’s not gone as it was a very informative and interesting read.

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  7. #5
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    A quick search revealed that Yamaha began marketing outboards in the US in 1984. There is a thread on here where the Merc engineer in charge of the V6 project chronicles its development:

    https://www.screamandfly.com/showthr...erc-V6-History

    It’s worth the read. The project started in 1970, the 1750 V6 (the 2.5’s granddad) was released in ‘76...
    Josh Peterson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onetime View Post
    Not according to Jerry Hale, engineer for the Mercury V-6. It was a Maico or some other German/Austrian dirt bike that the original porting was mapped from.

    Dont know what happened to the thread Jerry did on the development of the first V-6 Merc. Can’t seem to find it, hope it’s not gone as it was a very informative and interesting read.
    You beat me, but I linked the thread you mentioned!
    Josh Peterson

  9. #7
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    Yamaha before 84 sold engines threw the mariner line, small engines 60hp and under, above that was Mercs painted in Mariner colors. As for what they copied and form who is not the point I was making, If they were taking stuff apart to copy it is the point I found interesting. And who know what else they tore apart and looked at. or what they used. Stecbaure was in the mix back in that time frame was a engineer at Merc, who work on projects like the BP lower gear case , the speed master and super speed master gear cases. That maybe his memories served him wrong was not the point I wanted to get at, I wanted to make the point that he knew that Merc took apart a Yamaha 2stroke motor cycle to look at its porting is cool,
    Last edited by wogi; 03-23-2018 at 11:56 AM.
    1994 Brad Collins Mirage Jag.with 1990 2.4 BP E.F.I Offshore

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    Heinkel Germany of aircraft and motor fame designed the DKW V6 and was crated and sent to Oshkosh , Merc used design but the porting from a Husquvarna MX motor

    I have that from the man who picked it up and sent the delivery it to Oshkosh
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DKW V6.jpg  
    Last edited by FMP; 03-23-2018 at 11:34 AM.

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  12. #9
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    Looks like a cross flow engine to me, Is it?
    Last edited by wogi; 03-23-2018 at 12:03 PM.
    1994 Brad Collins Mirage Jag.with 1990 2.4 BP E.F.I Offshore

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    First thing I asked, answer is no. Schnueler looper with later Ardie , Duerkopp design .
    Original V6 design , Herbert Mueller's Eng. Germany .
    I've been told it was sent in 1966 to Merc.
    Last edited by FMP; 03-23-2018 at 12:26 PM.

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    The DKW is a 90* v6 with the carbs in the valley and exhaust outboard of the cylinder banks in conventional automotive v6 fashion. It was made by combining two inline 3 cylinder engines and uses 2 belt driven 3 cylinder distributors. This design really has nothing in common with the merc v6 other than they are both v6’s and both 2 strokes...

    I don’t doubt that one of them went to Merc during the development of the “Black Max” but to say the design is based on it would be a big stretch!
    Josh Peterson

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    It's what was told. Don't think that's the original proto, just used as reference. I'll find out some more detail.

  16. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CircleHook View Post
    As I torn down a late 90s yammie 150 recently it seemed like deja vue. There were a lot of things were very similar to a 2.5 merc- then I got to rod cap bolts- uses same 12 point socket- Similar stuff all the way to things like bolt hidden under trim tab at rear of lower to mid.
    Who copied who?
    Yamaha copied, and improved, the OMC V4/V6 engines. A key improvement was to copy Mercury's gear case.

    As to the rod bolts, that is a co-incidence. Rod designs are different, by the way.
    Markus' Performance Boating Links:
    www.toastedmarshmallow.com/performance

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  18. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus View Post
    Yamaha copied, and improved, the OMC V4/V6 engines. A key improvement was to copy Mercury's gear case.

    As to the rod bolts, that is a co-incidence. Rod designs are different, by the way.
    There was even a lawsuit over it...

    At Yamaha R&D stands for Ripoff and Develop lol. I think the only similarities to the merc though is the fact it's a 2-stroke and has 12 point rod bolts...
    '08 SRV
    Yamaha 3.1 Phase III


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  20. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMP View Post
    First thing I asked, answer is no. Schnueler looper with later Ardie , Duerkopp design .
    Original V6 design , Herbert Mueller's Eng. Germany .
    I've been told it was sent in 1966 to Merc.
    Neat looking engine,any idea of power output? what rpm's doe's it max out at? just wondering
    1994 Brad Collins Mirage Jag.with 1990 2.4 BP E.F.I Offshore

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