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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUJIMO View Post
    The Real McCoy Donzi 18 -
    adds like this (I’m guessing it was from a donzi add?) scream to me

    ”so you are older now and have money, buy one of these boats and a super hot young woman will jump in with you!

    Quote Originally Posted by TooStroked View Post
    As somewhat of an aside, this whole thread has been about illegally copying boat hulls. It was actually quite easy to do because one could use the hull (or deck) to be copied as the plug to make production boats. And it's been going on pretty much since fiberglass replaced wood as the preferred hull building material.

    In other fields - such as the automotive world - copying things was much harder to do - until recently. The ability to digitize just about any object has revolutionized the automotive (and manufacturing) world - and not always in a good way. It is now not only possible, but relatively easy to digitize / copy not only parts of an automobile, but even the entire vehicle. All one has to do is go to China to see this technology being blatantly (and rampantly) used to make cheap knock offs of some fairly expensive automobiles. And the Chinese government and court system basically turns a blind eye to the whole thing. Ah, progress.
    its a completely different mentality, and until you understand it it will not make sense.

    The chinese are PROUD of their ability to copy things, and that’s why they do it. To them it takes a skill to copy something and make it work, from photos or memory

    i was working on a chinese rig overseas, a “Great Wall “ rig(that’s actually the name of the chinese rig company).

    I was always trying to figure the rig out, like was it an old ass Nabors rig that was refurbished as best they could and some chinese made stuff where they couldn’t not refurbish (mud pumps etc).

    Anyway one day im talking to the chinese tool pusher and he asks me what I thought of the rig, and I told him it was pretty nice and was it an old refurbished Nabors rig, he said PROUDLY, No, we copied an old Nabors rig design, we did good job right?

    then says “ we chinese, we can copy anything. “ Japanese are good at inovation, chinese best copiers in the world”

    so not only does the government not stop it, they are proud of it.

  2. #107
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    Absolutely true about the Chinese being proud of their ability to copy things. Unfortunately that also means they're proud of their ability to completely disregard things like patents and copyright laws. And yes, the government backs them up too.
    1992 Progression 22
    Mercury Racing 250R

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickedwitthestix View Post
    I apologize somethings get lost in translation when writing it now I get what your saying. If your ever in Nassau lmk I’ll take you for a ride. Perfect bay boat. Can go 70 thru 2+ footers like nothing. Answering the other post progression is it’s own design. I’m sure he took cues from challenger though and a 23 kryptonite is a stretched 21 with a taller deck from what I’ve been told. Superboats are exact copy’s. Never been in a 23 kryptonite though I assume they handle similar just a bit bigger. Some are 40 yo and to an untrained eye can look like a new boat. Interesting how the handling characteristics are similar because in 78 or whatever you could only put a 200.now people put warmed up 300x on the boat and it can handle it. Went from a 70 mph boat to some flirting with triple digits. That always amazed me. But that goes for a few diff boats streams come to mind.
    Correct on which boats are splashed / direct copy (21 Superboat) and which ones were "evolutions" of the original Challenger - like the Progression 22. Either way, that shows us just how brilliant the original Challenger design truly was.
    1992 Progression 22
    Mercury Racing 250R

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90 5.0 View Post
    adds like this (I’m guessing it was from a donzi add?) scream to me

    ”so you are older now and have money, buy one of these boats and a super hot young woman will jump in with you!



    its a completely different mentality, and until you understand it it will not make sense.

    The chinese are PROUD of their ability to copy things, and that’s why they do it. To them it takes a skill to copy something and make it work, from photos or memory

    i was working on a chinese rig overseas, a “Great Wall “ rig(that’s actually the name of the chinese rig company).

    I was always trying to figure the rig out, like was it an old ass Nabors rig that was refurbished as best they could and some chinese made stuff where they couldn’t not refurbish (mud pumps etc).

    Anyway one day im talking to the chinese tool pusher and he asks me what I thought of the rig, and I told him it was pretty nice and was it an old refurbished Nabors rig, he said PROUDLY, No, we copied an old Nabors rig design, we did good job right?

    then says “ we chinese, we can copy anything. “ Japanese are good at inovation, chinese best copiers in the world”

    so not only does the government not stop it, they are proud of it.




    Yes a old add ... I bet that girl looks a little different today
    We have invented the world; WE see

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  6. #110
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    I also recall a story from the 60's or early 70's when Aronow had Formula that he got so tired of people popping his hulls (we called it popping, not splashing back then) that he opened a factory up on 183rd street right next to Formula and built Popcrafts. Same mold, chopper gun cheap build, competed with those who stole his design and built crap.

    By the way, few years back I was in Aventura going to an event at an Aventura performing arts center or something like that. Back when I first started working if I was in that area for work I would drive down 183rd street and just drip jealousy at all of the boat factories there. Called Thunderboat Row. Anyway, I am driving to this theater, it is a circuitous route that had the lightbulb going off in my mind--this was Thunderboat Row. Bunch of condos now; made me sad.
    Per Rock:

    "Once I bought my first Hydrostream boating changed forever for me."

    Per my hero Instigator:

    "I try not to let common sense interfere w/my boat buying decisions."


    Pat Gent
    cell 954-249-3246
    '78 Hydrostream Vandal (being rebuilt)
    '86 21' Eliminator Daytona, 300 OMC V-8 (Li'l Toy III)

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  8. #111
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    Turn off of Biscayne Blvd. @ Loehmanns Plaza onto N.E. 187th Street. One block east(at Magnum Marine & Hi-Lift Marina) turn right onto N.E. 188th Street. First on your left was a large empty ex-concrete manufacturing lot. Pretty much the entire street was originally concrete manufacturing. Most all of the large molded concrete "T" beams were made on the street, that went into every large structure/bridge/building in southeast Florida, came from there. Many other large concrete shaped products as well. Next to the empty left-side corner lot, was Apache Marina & Apache Bar & Grill. Then Bob Saccenti's Apache PowerBoats. Then a storage lot, that Cigarette owned, full of their largest, no longer used boat molds. The 42 Huntress molds, amoung others. Then about four lots/buildings that Cigarettes were built in. Then Tommy Adams Signature Marine, & Tempest Marine, later rented by Pantera. The rest of the end of the peninsula was still concete manufacturing, which slowed over many years. Up the other side of the street, was another Cigarette building/Team USA/Aronow Powerboats, next building was Bobby Moore's Custom Marine/Champion Marine/TnT Marine, a large empty concrete storage lot, Donzi/Cougar plant & then Magnum on the corner of 188th & 187th. Jeff Soffers dad built him a very nice large Champion Marine Showroom on the other entrance street. I think Jeff was about 20 years old at the time. Forensics couldn't find any sign of any of this today.
    Last edited by FUJIMO; 03-12-2018 at 09:07 AM.

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  10. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by delawarerick View Post
    Sidewinders have to be the most copied.
    Yip mine is a Dateline Bikini made in England a copy of a super sidewinder 16'Click image for larger version. 

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    I love my Bikini

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  12. #113
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    Piloting the red Donzi above, was "one" of the then, current owners of Donzi Marine. His son is on this board.
    Last edited by FUJIMO; 03-12-2018 at 09:09 AM.

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  14. #114
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by FUJIMO View Post
    ...which was also built by Cobra Boats, in Canada, in 1973...
    Bikini
    Click image for larger version. 

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    ​Made in the UK

    I love my Bikini

  15. #115
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    I have heard that cary hulls were built off the Cig and magnum hulls by Don A. So not really a true pop. Is that correct Fujimo? I built some 26' o/b boats in the 80's from an old cary hull mold using our own deck design....

    83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
    We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
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  16. #116
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    IIRC, he had a non-compete clause when he sold Magnum and built the 32' using Elton Cary's name to get around that. One of those 32's was "The Cigarette" which then got stretched and produced by his new company as a Cigarette.

    Quote Originally Posted by XstreamVking View Post
    I have heard that cary hulls were built off the Cig and magnum hulls by Don A. So not really a true pop. Is that correct Fujimo? I built some 26' o/b boats in the 80's from an old cary hull mold using our own deck design....

  17. #117
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    Don always had spare molds stored away in a warehouse elswhere, away from N.E. 188th Street. Yes, he then started Cary Marine, in his lawyers name Elton Cary. Most everything out there, 32 feet & under(but others lengthened versions) derived from the 27 Magnum. Too numerous to count. Definately one of the most copied. That, and the 233 Formula hull.
    Last edited by FUJIMO; 03-12-2018 at 09:45 AM.

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  19. #118
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    Formula 233 hull copies that come to mind...and there are many many more...are: BlueWater Boats, Contender, Tsunami, Albemarle, LionMar, Intrepid, WhiteWater, Rampone, SeeVee, BlackFin, Performer, Anacapri, Competition, Ocean Runner, Conch, John Allmand, Apollo, Coastal, Edenrock, Haines Hunter, etc., etc., etc...

  20. #119
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    Original Sportdeck -

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