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  1. #1
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    Intermittent Fast Beep oil injection alarm that disappears at higher RPM Solved!

    Hello all!

    For the past 5 years i chased one of the most annoying problems on my 1995 V6 carbureted 175 hp mercury outboard. I saw three other forums with the same question and no one ever solved it. It started out as once in awhile especially when it was cold there was a very fast beeping that was coming from the oil injection pump rotation or the spark signal it was compared to. Over the years I replaced the warning module and switch boxes. Last year it got a little more frequent and I could diagnose it so I ran on premixed gas measured the volume of oil output and it was in spec while the alarm was going off. I also found the guide for troubleshooting which mentioned there should be two peaks of Xvolts coming off the pump motion sensor EVERY (by hand) rotation of the flywheel. Well usually it was two peaks but if measured just after one peak i could get something like 2.25 turns of the flywheel before getting two peaks. I figured this wasn't an aircraft spec and the wording probably was just not perfect and it has to be working because its geared and the volume is in spec. I was wrong and now I know what was going on.

    The beeping became even more frequent this year but still disappeared at higher RPM!!! Since i did what i thought was a good oil system diagnoses last year I thought there must be an intermittent electrical misfire and I chased every electrical component this year. Found voltages slightly below spec from the stator so i replaced the stator - no difference. The potting was cracked in the otherwise functional trigger so i replaced it, not difference. I went back removed the oil pump keeping my finger on the magnet holding connector and it did not spin uniformly with the fly wheel. Removed the worm gear and sure enough 40% of the teeth on the plastic gear were worn through to the point of no engagement.

    My question is at high rpm was the momentum enough for it to not skip the teeth, or is the programming/tolerances for the alarm different at higher RPM?

    Disengage the oil system plug the air bleed for the remote tank with a 1/4" npt aluminum plug (same as 43453). Drill the magnet coupler bushing from semi circle to circular and to the right depth so you can flip the driven gear 180 degree so it doesn't interface with the plastic gear anymore yet it will still hold the metal bushing in place that is inside the crank case. (don't waste your money on the 22-73379 use your pump). Use your common sense to take off the rest of what you don't want from the injection system.

    Now that I posted a solution I was hoping I could get some guidance on some more questions that I have in my next post.

  2. #2
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    So besides reducing my crankcase volume be eliminating the remote tank I also noticed a previous marine mechanic from the previous owner 5 years agon dropped the gasket from the middle carb and it was half blocking the lower port carb. So those two things are improvements to the engine.

    When i replaced the trigger and removed the oil injection for a moment I didn't know what i was doing and i made some timing adjustments and the trigger was almost all the way counterclockwise that it could go. I went to start it and for what i thought was was .5 second and definitely not longer than 1.5 seconds it sky rocketed RPM before I turned off the key. Now I'm running it on premix of what I thought was 40/1 but could be 20/1 due to boat level on the trailer and a bad estimation of fuel in the tank. Anyways i set back all the timing/idle/advance screws so they hit the pads on the previous worn marks in the paint and the engine runs smoother than ever but is smoky as hell both in a garbage can of water and on muffs. Like you can't breath and lots of sludge and oil in the exhaust. I tried to run the mix on my four stroke kicker and it wont run the oil rich mix.

    So i bought a seloc manual did a ton of reading and one of the TDC indicators with a spring and increments that slides. The manual is useless it uses terms without pictures that I'm sure are not all related to my engine (says its for all 135hp to 200hp for my year). Anyways my stock steel 40 amp flywheel is indexed from the factory and the crank is keyed so I'm thinking why the hell do i need to use this stupid expensive dial indicator tool so i can follow these instructions. I used my non-dial linear motion indicator and can see it stops moving one degree before TDC on cylinder 1 and starts moving again one degree after TDC. Guess what? my indexed flywheel had a 0 right inbetween my two readings!

    Running it in a garbage can i adjusted the idle to 8 degrees ATDC,(manual says remove plugs and run it off just cranking). The engine sounds better than ever now but is too smokey.

    Can someone give me some simple instructions to make sure I setup my timing right? And why would I ever have to find TDC on my keyed indexed flywheel? I'm going to run it on a tank of 100/1 tonight since the pump was specced to put out 100/1 idle 50/1 FOT.

    Thanks!
    Greg

  3. #3
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    ya gotta adjust tha pointer to tha .462 mark or tha rest won't mater............. reason for dial indicator.. never seen a "factory" flywheel indexed.

    ps... use tha seloc for startin fires next winter and splurge for an oem........
    Last edited by tlwjkw; 06-23-2017 at 06:16 AM.

  4. Thanks Fishinmymission thanked for this post
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  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlwjkw View Post
    ya gotta adjust tha pointer to tha .462 mark or tha rest won't mater............. reason for dial indicator.. never seen a "factory" flywheel indexed.

    ps... use tha seloc for startin fires next winter and splurge for an oem........
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is what my flywheel looks like (same part number image from ebay). Is this already indexed or is there a confusion somewhere? I don't understand what you mean by adjust the pointer to .462 mark could you please elaborate? if this is indexed and the fly wheel is keyed to the crank what is the purpose of redoing this?

    Thanks for the reply it's a horrible feeling to be doing all of this alone for your first time. Also this is a stock fishing engine that I just want to work well and be efficient as possible. I don't need any more HP for my boat. Thats what this forum seems to be about but this forum seems to have the most technical experts on this stuff as well.

    I'll get back to working on it all day tomorrow and hopefully bring it down to the slip this weekend. I might run evinrude xd50 at 50/1 in the main 120 gallon tank and keep a 5 gallon tank on deck with xd50 or xd100 at 100/1 so i don't smoke other people out leaving the marina.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Fishinmymission; 06-23-2017 at 09:15 AM.

  6. #5
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    all of 'em are marked that way.. an "indexed" flywheel is marked all tha way around so ya check timin' on each cylinder..... there can be a degree or two difference for whatever reason....

    send me an email addy... i'll send ya pdf that will explain it all to ya.........

  7. #6
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    The flywheel cover has a pointer made into it that is used for setting timing. Still have to use a dial indicator to find tdc and adj pointer on cover. Then you can use the numbers on the flywheel.

    83 V-King, 96 Mariner, 200 hp ff block 2.5 w/a 28p choppa
    We gotta clean this liberal mess up, VOTE TRUMP TO MAGA!
    Rebuild thread:
    http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-it&highlight=
    http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...cs.&highlight=
    Videos

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  9. #7
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    Thanks for the guidance tlwjkw. The Seloc manual is useless. OEM for the win. I'm assuming this needs to be done to account for any original tolerance gaps and accumulated wear on crank journals and wrist pins(or movement of the pointer arrow). I have various dial indicators and calipers ill figure out a way to hook it up to get the reading as I don't want to spend the money or wait for the actual dial indicator spark plug tool. If the OEM says 20 degrees for maximum timing is that what I should do. Can i play with going further say 23 degrees and see if I get higher top speed. I'm sometimes going on very long trips and looking to maximize efficiency/range if possible without refueling. Anything I should be looking for to accomplish this?

  10. #8
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    TIMING A V-6 MERCURY
    by Dave Raymoure
    This article generally paraphrases the Mercury Manual on timing 2.4 and 2.5 V-6 motors. The adjustment is the same for carbureted or EFI motors. The intent is to explain the adjustment procedure used to set the maximum and primary pickup timing. You may need to modify the timing values used as examples based on your motors specific timing requirements.
    There can be some differences between motors with stock flywheels and those with lightweight fly wheels. Degree markings are not always present on the lightweight ones. My stock steel flywheel has markings in one-degree increments around the specified settings – my light one has no markings at all. If your flywheel does not have the specified timing marks you need, at idle or maximum timing, it is possible to determine the location and mark the flywheel. You need to measure the circumference of the flywheel in inches, and divide by 360. This will give you the distance in inches on the circumference of the flywheel that is equal to 1 degree of timing. Using the TDC mark, and the 25 degree mark discussed below, you can add or subtract the distance needed to mark your specific degree location.
    For this example we’re going to assume your max timing spec is 25 BTDC, primary pickup spec is 8 degrees ATDC, and that you do not have a timing advance module. If you have a timing advance module it must be disconnected prior to timing, and your max. timing value will be less than 25 degrees. You will need to check the specification for your particular motor for the correct timing values.
    The only tools you will need are open-end wrenches, a Phillips screwdriver, and a timing light. You will also need an adaptor that will screw into a sparkplug hole and a dial indicator with an actuating rod long enough to extend through the adaptor and pick up the piston movement. The photograph below is an example of one machined from a bar of aluminum.

    Make sure the trigger link rod adjustment is correct. It should be 11/16 (.688") from the CENTER of the rod before the bend, to the contact face of the locking nut.


    If you have the timing slide pointer on the flywheel cover, loosen the two screws so it will slide left and right.
    If you do not have a pointer, make one from a piece of wire and attach it to any bolt or bracket available. The pointer must point to the edge of the flywheel so it can be aligned with marks on the flywheel, and be stiff and secured well enough so it won’t move while the motor is cranked.
    Remove all sparkplugs so you can turn the flywheel by hand. I ground all plugs also just to make sure the switch boxes do not get damaged.
    Insert the dial indicator and threaded adaptor into cylinder #1 sparkplug hole.
    Turn the flywheel clockwise until the dial indicator indicates top dead center. Turn the flywheel slightly back and forth to verify TDC. There will be a "dead spot" where some flywheel movement will not result in movement of the dial indicator. I use the center of this area as TDC.
    If you have TDC ( 0 degrees) indicated on the flywheel, adjust the pointer to align with this mark. If TDC is not marked on the flywheel, make a mark on the flywheel and align the pointer with the mark. White paint works well, so does white correction fluid or a fine paint pen. Just make sure the mark is as thin as possible, and will be visible in the flash from a timing light. This is the place to be creative. I’ve used white paint that makes too wide a mark and gone back with a black fine point sharpie marker and narrowed the line. Whatever works for you. Some people use a punch and hammer, but personally, I would be concerned about even a light impact load to the crank and upper bearing.
    Tighten the timing pointer slide screws, if applicable. Continue turning the flywheel clockwise until the pointer points to 8 degrees AFTC. Mark the flywheel at this location also. Remember, if your flywheel is not marked you will need to calculate the distance on the circumference that equals 8 degrees and use that distance from TDC to mark the flywheel.
    Turn the flywheel counter clockwise PAST .150" before top dead center – maybe .200"to .250" or so. Carefully turn the flywheel clockwise again and stop at .150"BTDC. This removes any slop and insures the piston is approaching TDC from the same direction as in normal operation. .150" BTDC is equal to 25 degrees BTDC.
    If there are degree markings on your flywheel the indicator should be pointing at 25 degrees. If you have a 25 degree mark and the pointer is close, but not aligned, adjust the pointer so it does align. If there no markings, put another mark on the flywheel aligned with the pointer. This will be the maximum spark advance timing mark. It’s best to make this mark unique from the marks at TDC and 8 degree ATDC.
    Make sure the battery is fully charged.
    Remove the dial indicator and adaptor, and install the spark plug in cylinder #1. Leave the other plugs out so the motor will spin at a higher cranking rpm.
    Hook up timing light to cylinder #1
    Disconnect the throttle cable from the throttle control lever.
    If you’re using a remote starter, one connecter goes to the small solenoid post with the yellow wire with red tracer. The second connecter goes to the large terminal with the heavy red cable from the battery. If you are not using a remote starter, you’ll need a second person to turn the key while you open the throttle and hold the timing light.


    SETTING MAXIMUM TIMING
    Loosen the lock nut on the maximum spark advance screw.
    Turn the motor over while holding the throttle control lever at wide-open position so the maximum spark advance screw is against its stop. With the timing light, the pointer should align with the 25 degree (.150") BTDC mark on the flywheel. If it does not, screw the maximum spark advance screw in or out until the pointer is aligned with the mark while cranking.
    Tighten the lock nut on the maximum spark advance screw.


    SETTING IDLE TIMING
    Loosen the lock nut on the primary pickup screw
    Turn the motor over while holding the throttle control lever closed so that the idle stop screw is against its stop. The pointer should align with 8 degree ATDC mark on the flywheel. If it is not, adjust the primary pickup screw in or out until the pointer aligns with the 8 degree ATDC mark while cranking.
    Tighten the locknut on the primary pickup screw.


    This section features articles written by you guys. Submit whatever you would like - as long as it applies to HydroStreams, motors, trailers, or towing vehicles. Please send it to me in a form where I can just insert it into this page (some kind of Word processing document would be good). It would be a good idea to check with me first to make sure nobody else is working on the same topic. Everyone please consider writing an article and sharing some information that will help out your fellow Streamers.

  11. #9
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    the following instructions for setting proper timing on a 2.5
    "Insert a dial indicator in # 1 plug hole ( V-6 is located Starbord side top )and rotate the crankshaft CLOCKWISE (with all plugs out) till you establish 0 mark the flywheel adjacent to a stationary pointer . After you've establish O turn the crankshaft COUNTER CLOCK WISE till the dial indicator reads .150" then mark the flywheel at the point where the pointer is dead nuts adjacent to the stationary pointer again that is 25 degrees. ( . 170" is 27 degrees ) Remove your dial indicator then reincert #1 plug and attach plug plug wire then ground all the rest of the plug wires ( I use a coil tester instead of grounding to the block ) attach your timing light on # 1 plug which is screwed in the block, rotate with the starter WITH THE TIMING ARM IN THE LOCKED WIDE OPEN POSITION AT TOTAL TIMING till the spark plug fires and indicates. If timing needs to be adjusted loosen the 7/16 jam nut in the top side of the timing arm and adjust philips headed screw till itswhere you want at WIDE OPEN TIMING( fully advanced ) repeat till it's dead nuts. Also make sure if you have an advancer type timing light it is on 0." (28)

  12. #10
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    OEM manual stated .462 not .170 for my motor which is what I did. Who ever timed it last did a good job because the pointers lined up right with .462 marking on the fly wheel. My 175 hp was smoking so badly because i made way to oil rich a mixture. I ran it on a 100 to 1 tank it it smokes like it use with the oil injection system. I also checked compression and I'm happy to report 115, 110, 115, 108, 113, 111. slightly under spec with the 108 and the port bank has slightly worse compression but I'm happy to learn that my slowly failing oil pump did not toast my engine after running it for five years.

    I ran straight gas on my 9.9 hp four stroke 1996 mariner kicker and pumping the throttle lever rapidly was the only way i could keep it running. After about 5 to ten minutes of doing this it was running fine on its own.
    So I want to see if I keep a 5 gallon tank of 100/1 to leave the marina on my main 175 2 stroke and to run my 4 stroke kicker. I hooked up the 100 to one mixture to the kicker and its not running again even after 10 minutes of pumping the throttle lever back and fourth. If i leave the throttle open it dies, spraying starting fluid into the intake has no effect. Just rapid pumping of the throttle lever keeps it running. I find it hard to believe that the 100/1 oil mixture is causing issues with the carburetor but I need to keep digging into this. Regardless if the kicker works I'm bringing the boat to the marina tomorrow evening.

  13. #11
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    Hmm I don't know why starter fluid didn't seem to affect it, as I do now think it's fuel related. I can see the forward most jetsquirts a pump a fuel Everytime I stroke the throttle. So the other jets must be clogged...

  14. #12
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    Found a chunk of what looked like aluminum oxide clogging the inlet to the main jet and some pitting and alot of chunky oxide or residue growing in the bowl. Brushed everything out reused the gaskets and both engines are running great. The four stroke runs great on 100/1 premix and I'll bet it runs on 50/1 if I ever need to.

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