DCB M29 vs Eliminator 28 speedster 400r verado trim level

**conmax** · 09-26-2016, 10:53 PM

In multiple videos of the DCB M29 with twin 400 verados, the bow(trim) is much higher than that of the 28 Eliminator speedster with the same motors.

Since the Eliminator was about 12 mph faster, maybe the higher bow reduced the DCB speed. I doubt this since most try to get the best speed from their offerings.

The DCB was also over 1000 lbs heavier which is likely the reason for the slower speed.

From watching many twin outboards cats run, it seems that more bow lift is common for outboards vs stern drives.

Does anyone have any thoughts on weather the DCB high trim level is faster than the low trim level of the speedster, independent of the weight differential?

**Davidlake** · 09-27-2016, 09:10 AM

I would be interested in the weights of both. Also, don't believe everything you read on-line!

**conmax** · 09-27-2016, 02:36 PM

I don't believe all that is online. I have ridden in both boats.

**Speed Jr.** · 09-27-2016, 05:51 PM

What was your impression conmax? I've been in a couple DCB's. What a terrible handling boat in any type of chop. I see why they will never ever race them. I would hope the Eliminator is better but both are more calm water boats for sure....

**Rayzor** · 09-27-2016, 08:47 PM

Since Tony was probably the one driving the DCB, I wouldn't say it was due to driver error - he's probably the best centerpod cat driver in the world. There are so many factors that come into play as to why one boat would carry the nose higher than the other, it's hard to know where to start. Differences in the running surfaces (straight, rocker or hook of the bottom), differences in the tunnel (angle of attack of the tunnel, tunnel depth/width), differences in the cg of the boat, differences in the setback of the motors - all of these are contributors to how a boat runs at speed - high angle of attack, or relatively flat.

**conmax** · 09-27-2016, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Speed Jr.

What was your impression conmax? I've been in a couple DCB's. What a terrible handling boat in any type of chop. I see why they will never ever race them. I would hope the Eliminator is better but both are more calm water boats for sure....

The DCB M29 was over 1000 lbs heavier than the Daytona, as a result it went through the rough water better. The Daytona, at 4400 lbs, had a lot of carbon fibre/kevlar and was 10-12mph faster.

Neither are ocean boats, but they go through the 3 ft chop at Lake Havasu like it wasn't there. They are ideal for lake boats, even on heavy traffic weekends, and have room under the bow and no annoying porpoise.

The big DCBs, like the 41, do quite well in big water poker runs, if you want something that big and costly. The Skater 28' will not handle twin 400's according to Skater.

**Rayzor** · 09-27-2016, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by conmax

The DCB M29 was over 1000 lbs heavier than the Daytona, as a result it went through the rough water better. The Daytona, at 4400 lbs, had a lot of carbon fibre/kevlar and was 10-12mph faster.

Neither are ocean boats, but they go through the 3 ft chop at Lake Havasu like it wasn't there. They are ideal for lake boats, even on heavy traffic weekends, and have room under the bow and no annoying porpoise.

The big DCBs, like the 41, do quite well in big water poker runs, if you want something that big and costly. The Skater 28' will not handle twin 400's according to Skater.

No argument from me that DCBs and Eliminators are great lake boats, and actually much better than Skaters or any true tunnel for many people (especially families). But to say 28'/29' Eliminators/DCBs run over 3' water like it's not even there is completely false. True 3' chop or swell would take a 28'-29' centerpod cat down to about 40 mph and be beating the hell out of it's occupants. I know this for a fact, as we were on Lake Tahoe one day when the wind kicked up, producing 3' windchop, and my buddy was down to 35-40mph in his 28 Daytona getting the crap beat out of him and his family - while we were running circles around him at 50-55 comfortably in my 28 Skater. None of those centerpod cats run over the rough well, that's why you don't see any of them race offshore. And as for a Skater 28 not handling twin 400Rs, the reason Pete says that is because what makes a 28 such a great boat (speed for power, handling and rough water ability), will be ruined with the weight of those big motors hanging off the transom. It would be very fast on smooth water and in a straight line (much like a similar size Eliminator or DCB, only faster), but it wouldn't be a good performing all-around boat (also like a 28'/29' Eliminator/DCB w/ 400Rs hanging off the back). I have three good friends that rode with Tony in the F26 w/ 400Rs on the back at The Big Cat Run, and they all said it did surprisingly well with the 400Rs on the back, but like they also all said, it's no 28 Skater. And all three guys are prior DCB and/or Skater owners. I'm not saying DCB and/or Eliminator don't build great boats, because they do build great LAKE boats - you just can't compare them to Skaters/Doug Wrights/MTIs/Spectres when it comes to all-around performance.

**Double Rigged** · 09-28-2016, 06:08 AM

Seems to be a big discrepancy in what everyone considers 3' chop or sea's

**JPEROG** · 09-28-2016, 09:51 AM

Until you have been on lake Cumberland (poker run weekend), Lake of the Ozarks (shootout weekend), or spent a lot of time on the ocean and or Great Lakes, most people don't understand true 3 foot chop. Growing up in West Michigan and being caught in several storms on Lake Michigan, there are very few days that ocean compares to "rough" up there because the swells are so much further apart. When I rode in a 46 skater for the first time I was expecting to go right over 3 to 5 foot waves (we did until we were North of 80 mph) then the boat suddenly felt small again.

Joe

**Davidlake** · 09-28-2016, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Double Rigged

Seems to be a big discrepancy in what everyone considers 3' chop or sea's

I have only seen wind chop in excess of 3 feet once on my lake..it was during a severe thunderstorm micro-burst. Watched it come in from the north while on the marina dock. Only at LOTO (from large cruisers and off Miami, FL) have i experienced 3 footers while in a boat! My 28 Skater with ballast did quite well at LOTO's shoot out! My wife and I traveled 240 miles one morning there...pretty smooth ride.

**Double Rigged** · 09-28-2016, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Davidlake

I have only seen wind chop in excess of 3 feet once on my lake..it was during a severe thunderstorm micro-burst. Watched it come in from the north while on the marina dock. Only at LOTO (from large cruisers and off Miami, FL) have i experienced 3 footers while in a boat! My 28 Skater with ballast did quite well at LOTO's shoot out! My wife and I traveled 240 miles one morning there...pretty smooth ride.

Nothing like a Skater w/ballast in rough water!!!!!

**racer** · 09-28-2016, 02:18 PM

Were the weights estimates or did they actually weigh them on the same scale?

**conmax** · 09-28-2016, 02:23 PM

The wind chop at Lake Havasu will definitely reach 3'. My measurement of chop is the difference between the peak and the trough of a wave. Some would says this is only 18", but the DCB and Eliminator 28 will go over that comfortably at 70-80 mph. If the waves are close enough together relative to the boat length, you are ridding on the peak. Ocean or big lake chop is different, with enough time to allow the hull to sink into the trough.

I used to have a 26' DCB Mach that was much rougher riding. It would, however, beat Dale's boat regularly on the waters near Disco bay. I think he had a Talon then and thought it was pretty hot stuff, always looking for someone to race.

**Rayzor** · 09-28-2016, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by conmax

The wind chop at Lake Havasu will definitely reach 3'. My measurement of chop is the difference between the peak and the trough of a wave. Some would says this is only 18", but the DCB and Eliminator 28 will go over that comfortably at 70-80 mph. If the waves are close enough together relative to the boat length, you are ridding on the peak. Ocean or big lake chop is different, with enough time to allow the hull to sink into the trough.

I used to have a 26' DCB Mach that was much rougher riding. It would, however, beat Dale's boat regularly on the waters near Disco bay. I think he had a Talon then and thought it was pretty hot stuff, always looking for someone to race.

You need to go back to River Dave's Place - there are plenty of idiots over on that website that you would get along with. Nobody here is going to waste their time trying to educate you after that post. Typical DCB/Eliminator owner..........