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  1. #61
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    I would be curious to know....... I just purchased a 23 with twin 225's

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by engineermike View Post
    Hydroscreamin, you might be right. My speeds were just guestimates. My original take was that a single engine will suffer a lot of acceleration loss but not that much top speed loss due to weight and drag reductions. However I found one guy that only managed upper 60's with a single 275 (v8). There's another guy claiming 87 from a single 225 and 98 from a single 300, but he did major hull mods to knock something like 800 lb out of it. Now I'm thinking 75 from a single 250 or 95 from a 400r.
    That would be me. A stock 23 hull will run the following speeds with the listed motors.

    300 v8 65
    twin 200 v6 80

    After hull corrections

    200 v6 80, super slow acceleration.
    225 v6 87 medium slow acceleration
    300 v8 100 , fast acceleration
    300 v6 100, medium acceleration

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by engineermike View Post
    The more I think about it, the more it looks like a repower with a 400r or a pair of 250xs makes the most sense, or just leave the 300's. I just have trouble getting excited about the pair of xs motors. They're 2 stroke and been done many times. Based on forum reading, the 400r needs a center pod to work right on a cat. The skater guys are whining about difficulty setting up a single with no pod. If there were a perfect hull for a single 400r, the 23 eliminator might be it. I know at least one 22' talon and 22' liberator have been done (both have center pods) with speeds of 110 - "115MPH with more speed on tap." They're also claiming 110 with a single 300xs and I'm certain the elim 23 won't do that.
    Most likely 110 with single 300x

  4. #64
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    The 23 is NOT weight tolorant. Twins make the problems worse. Your wasting your money if you don't get the weight out.
    I know, I ran them with twin 200's, 260's and 400 v8's.
    We have yet to see a properly setup twin 23. If you running 5 sheets of 3/4 inch sub floor glassed both sides and 500 pounds of interior your beating a dead horse. This is because of bottom flaws. You will have to get the weight out or alter the bottom or both. For twins the bottom correction is made to the outer sponsons starting 6 feet from the back and goes forward, it does not involve cutting the boat.
    For a single engine DO NOT CUT the center pod. Been there done that. When done right the boat will run on JUST THE POD. If you get the weight out. I've run 22 Talon's , 21 Daytona's and most of the rest. The 23 Daytona is the best single runabout I've ever driven. When done right. It's bigger, more comfortable, takes more water and RUNS JUST AS FAST. When done right it will run 95 with one 300 Promax and FOUR adults. That's much faster loaded than the others.
    It will NOT reach an acceptable level of performance STOCK.

    Any questions?
    Last edited by tunnelfun; 08-07-2018 at 11:44 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by HydroSkreamin View Post
    EngineerMike, I'm in agreement with you. I did run the numbers in the speed calculator, keeping the hull constant the same for each combo, using 265 as the number. This may change twin to single, but keeping it the same for calc purposes allows only the HP change to be seen.

    If you keep a boat weight of 3200, you can see with 520 HP (2-260's like Eli's combo) nets 107, the 250 nets 74, and the 400 nets 94. Note also in the link it is referring to UNcorrected HP, so the LIE FACTOR on a dyno will skew results. It's a ballpark tool for me, I wouldn't get caught up in it trying to predict to the last MPH, but it does help add some reality to how much power it'll take a combo to pick up 10 MPH if you have a good baseline.

    http://www.go-fast.com/boat_speed_predictions.htm

    My hull weighed 1540 before I started on it with tanks, and weighed 1540 when I was done with it without tanks, but I added a 3rd layer to the transom, more layers of glass in the sponsons to replace rotten core, and crossbracing every two feet to stiffen the whole boat up. If you want to read a novel and see the build thread, here it is: http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forum...mod-23-Daytona

    So the bare hull with tanks is 1620, I'm predicting 400 lbs for interior and stereo, 80 lbs for batteries, 680 lb engine (ready to run: steering cyl, 8L oil in sump), 50 lbs for Stainless Marine Gorilla jackplate, 25 lbs for power steering and jack plate pump, 120 lbs for fuel (20 gal), plus 200 lbs for driver equals 3175.

    A twin 300 XS can add 330 lbs for the difference in engines, 40+ lbs for twin 3 gal oil tanks with oil, another setback bracket (40-50 lbs), and steering ( 10 lbs per engine, or 20 lbs), which is an additional 430 lbs on the conservative side.

    Have you weighed your boat yet with the twin Yammi's? It would be good knowledge to have. I've done the "drop the boat and weigh truck and trailer separate" method, and just weigh the boat on scales, they come out the same.
    A stripped California 23 with no transom or stringers(don't need the stringers) will weight 900 pounds, Wisconsin 800 pounds. The calculator doesn't work for the 23.
    Last edited by tunnelfun; 08-07-2018 at 11:47 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by HydroSkreamin View Post
    EngineerMike, I'm in agreement with you. I did run the numbers in the speed calculator, keeping the hull constant the same for each combo, using 265 as the number. This may change twin to single, but keeping it the same for calc purposes allows only the HP change to be seen.

    If you keep a boat weight of 3200, you can see with 520 HP (2-260's like Eli's combo) nets 107, the 250 nets 74, and the 400 nets 94. Note also in the link it is referring to UNcorrected HP, so the LIE FACTOR on a dyno will skew results. It's a ballpark tool for me, I wouldn't get caught up in it trying to predict to the last MPH, but it does help add some reality to how much power it'll take a combo to pick up 10 MPH if you have a good baseline.

    http://www.go-fast.com/boat_speed_predictions.htm

    My hull weighed 1540 before I started on it with tanks, and weighed 1540 when I was done with it without tanks, but I added a 3rd layer to the transom, more layers of glass in the sponsons to replace rotten core, and crossbracing every two feet to stiffen the whole boat up. If you want to read a novel and see the build thread, here it is: http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forum...mod-23-Daytona

    So the bare hull with tanks is 1620, I'm predicting 400 lbs for interior and stereo, 80 lbs for batteries, 680 lb engine (ready to run: steering cyl, 8L oil in sump), 50 lbs for Stainless Marine Gorilla jackplate, 25 lbs for power steering and jack plate pump, 120 lbs for fuel (20 gal), plus 200 lbs for driver equals 3175.

    A twin 300 XS can add 330 lbs for the difference in engines, 40+ lbs for twin 3 gal oil tanks with oil, another setback bracket (40-50 lbs), and steering ( 10 lbs per engine, or 20 lbs), which is an additional 430 lbs on the conservative side.

    Have you weighed your boat yet with the twin Yammi's? It would be good knowledge to have. I've done the "drop the boat and weigh truck and trailer separate" method, and just weigh the boat on scales, they come out the same.
    A stripped California 23 with no transom or stringers(don't need the stringers) will weight 900 pounds, Wisconsin 800 pounds.

  7. #67
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    Resurrection

    Quote Originally Posted by tunnelfun View Post
    The 23 is NOT weight tolorant. Twins make the problems worse. Your wasting your money if you don't get the weight out.
    I know, I ran them with twin 200's, 260's and 400 v8's.
    We have yet to see a properly setup twin 23. If you running 5 sheets of 3/4 inch sub floor glassed both sides and 500 pounds of interior your beating a dead horse. This is because of bottom flaws. You will have to get the weight out or alter the bottom or both. For twins the bottom correction is made to the outer sponsons starting 6 feet from the back and goes forward, it does not involve cutting the boat.
    For a single engine DO NOT CUT the center pod. Been there done that. When done right the boat will run on JUST THE POD. If you get the weight out. I've run 22 Talon's , 21 Daytona's and most of the rest. The 23 Daytona is the best single runabout I've ever driven. When done right. It's bigger, more comfortable, takes more water and RUNS JUST AS FAST. When done right it will run 95 with one 300 Promax and FOUR adults. That's much faster loaded than the others.
    It will NOT reach an acceptable level of performance STOCK.

    Any questions?
    This is one I just bought, don't have it here yet but trying to learn as much as I can about what to expect. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9yWEo7NdZQ
    Watching the attitude and rooster, look's pretty good to me. What do you guy's think ? Thanks

  8. #68
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    They ride flat don't require much trim I ran mine neutral or slightly neg and will go over 3 footers easy very stable boat we would go back to landing at 90 + all the tower /wake board , pontoons thought we were nuts

  9. #69
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    23 Daytona

    This is what they look like at 100 with a single 275 hp. If you look close you will see that the outside sponsons aren't doing a lot so far as lift.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails P3170009.jpg  
    Last edited by tunnelfun; 03-17-2019 at 04:12 PM.

  10. #70
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    Holy set back!!! Was that a custom Gill Bracket?
    I CAN ALWAYS MAKE ANOTHER DOLLAR, BUT I CANNOT MAKE ANOTHER DAY

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  12. #71
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    No, 30 inch custom garage job. The boat runs the same top speed with 18 or 24 but the speed dropped from 95 down to 85 with a 4 person load. In order to punish the big supercharged outdrives on a 100 mile stretch in 2/3 footers with your buddies and two coolers on board you need the 30 inch. I watched a lot of those boats blow their motors trying to run with this boat on the long haul.

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  14. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by tunnelfun View Post
    This is what they look like at 100 with a single 275 hp. If you look close you will see that the outside sponsons aren't doing a lot so far as lift.
    What prop was that run with?

  15. #73
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    Mazco RE3, Chopper, Merc ET, OMC Raker...... They all ran the about same. Wouldn't run with a stock Bravo, at all. A power hog prop.
    Fastest was a stock 15.5x32 Merc 4 blade clever. Ran 106 empty, but a loser under 90.
    Best all said and done was a stock 15.5x31 Hydramotive Quad 4. Ran 102 empty and 95 loaded.

  16. #74
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    What’s the logic behind all the setback?

  17. #75
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    That boat needs a 3% sponson attack angle to keep the boat dry, it wont run @ 2%. They will be wet. And -2% prop shaft angle to keep it from flipping when the nose lifts. 18 inches required positive trim, eliminating the case as a running surface. The boat uses a transom water pickup. Water contacts the back half of the case. When the nose lifts, the bottom of the case resist boat rotation. If the nose lifts more the case sinks and applies brakes. Going from no case to 3+ inches of case is a lot of drag in a hurry at 100. Very affective.
    The 30 inch set back is necessary to balance the boat with 4 people and a full gas load.
    At 18 or 24 set back it will run the top speed empty but only 85 loaded. With 30 inches it runs 95 loaded with the average prop.
    Study the picture closely. The rear of the sponsons are almost clear of the water. The boat is riding on the center sponson and case. If the nose is run any lower the middle of the sponsons will get wet. The trim is negative. The spray from under the sponson is mist blown forward around the compression curtain and then dripping from the sponson chine edge. The compression can be seen on the water as far forward as the drivers seat.


    Click image for larger version. 

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