Who in their right mind restores a BAYLINER?!

[home made tunnel]

So here's the bottom piston. I want to throw this engine into the bottom of the bay to join davey jones' locker.

[FMP]

Man , you don't have enough psi in it to hurt it and it looks rich , rich , rich. That's a shiit piston or you had to have heard the pinging . Can't tell what the bore looks like? BTW , the ports look good. It never got hot enough , or ran hard enough , or timed wrong enough , or lean enough ??? Gentlemen we have a problem. I and many other have run these with 165- 200+ psi and don't see that. I can tell that I run 170 and lean and lots of ign 34-35* and 170hrs later still beautiful. If the ign is that far off on one hole , what bad trigger by a lot !!!? Do we need to index the flywheel for all cylinders and check , could be.

[home made tunnel]

When I did the timing, I picked up signal from the #1 cylinder. I wonder what it would be on the #3. More things to check... Ugh. More $$$. After a new rectifier, trigger, and stator, piston, and machine work, I'm going to be into this motor for $4,000+... half the price of a brand new Etec!
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Where's all the build threads & videos of your motors FMP?

[FMP]

Just speculation that the trigger is off enough on #3 to put it at say 38 or 40*+.You need to TDC every cyl and markt it on the flywheel, then index the wheel.An easy way is to use a tailors measureing tape or count teeth from the #1 flywheel marking to the 34-36* mark and do the same from the TDC mark for #2,3 . Since #3 is the only bad one and the colour and wash look about the same as the rest , it's prob. not the bottom carbs fault. If timing is near the rest after checking and ign is ruled out , some are saying bad alc. seperation in the fuel . Could the bad parts of fuel only get to the bottom carb and the majority of the good fuel make it to the two remaining carbs, bottom carb gets its first? Could be a bad piston and that's all. It happens but not often and bad luck on a good build. Just noticed three little marks on the #1 piston lower side of the deflector , what is that?

[home made tunnel]

Yes, bottom carb fueled 1st, then goes up the stack. And alc. seperation in the fuel? What do you mean?
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I'm going to order a new stator, trigger, and rectifier at my next paycheck just because haha.
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Dropped the head off @ the machine shop today too. Going to take a full 0.10" off it, since I've got 0.19" of clearance. I'm guessing that will bump it at least 20-25psi. i'll bring it back again if I need to go more.
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Just ordered a new piston and ring set from TSM Performance - but $19 for shipping UPS ground Jeebus ! ! ! There goes another $110.
Probably didn't need a new ring set, but ordered it just because.
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What spots on the #1 piston are you referring to?

[FMP]

Yes, bottom carb fueled 1st, then goes up the stack. And alc. seperation in the fuel? What do you mean?
.
I'm going to order a new stator, trigger, and rectifier at my next paycheck just because haha.
.
Dropped the head off @ the machine shop today too. Going to take a full 0.10" off it, since I've got 0.19" of clearance. I'm guessing that will bump it at least 20-25psi. i'll bring it back again if I need to go more.
.
Just ordered a new piston and ring set from TSM Performance - but $19 for shipping UPS ground Jeebus ! ! ! There goes another $110.
Probably didn't need a new ring set, but ordered it just because.
.
What spots on the #1 piston are you referring to?

WAIT don't cut it yet, that's sounds like way too much let me check on that, your photo of the head didn't show that much left ,look at the thickness at the water passage ,you will be too thin. The numbers you show 130psi with that much clearance .19 and port height mean you can't have much left to cut on the head. I wouldn't go that far into the squish area the head will weaken. Okay just got word , you can cut into that area but maybe not as much as you think, you cut it already. It's your call, but you can flatten that area some, just work the edge smooth.
Just talked about another Chrysler triple, did it to 195 psi, turned onto a real anger little motor.

3 spots on the deflector lower side near the cyl wall. And I 'll put up a complete build start to finish when I get the latest one finished .Need time to get everything else done. That last boat I restored I didn't take any pics, worked through the winter to get it in the water by spring. Complete tear out , plus motor top to bottom. Didn't feel like taking pics just wanted to get it done right the first time. 105cubic inch 140. 040+ Wiseco's and all the rest. 1.73 powerflow lower . CHRYSLER Hydro-Vee 17 ' BR walk through , delta vee pad hull .Lots of smiles.
Wisecos on the left , lighter, stronger, faster .

[olboatman]

WAIT don't cut it yet, that's sounds like way too much let me check on that, your photo of the head didn't show that much left ,look at the thickness at the water passage ,you will be too thin. The numbers you show 130psi with that much clearance .19 and port height mean you can't have much left to cut on the head. I wouldn't go that far into the squish area the head will weaken. Okay just got word , you can cut into that area but maybe not as much as you think, you cut it already. It's your call, but you can flatten that area some, just work the edge smooth.
Just talked about another Chrysler triple, did it to 195 psi, turned onto a real anger little motor.

3 spots on the deflector lower side near the cyl wall. And I 'll put up a complete build start to finish when I get the latest one finished .Need time to get everything else done. That last boat I restored I didn't take any pics, worked through the winter to get it in the water by spring. Complete tear out , plus motor top to bottom. Didn't feel like taking pics just wanted to get it done right the first time. 105cubic inch 140. 040+ Wiseco's and all the rest. 1.73 powerflow lower . CHRYSLER Hydro-Vee 17 ' BR walk through , delta vee pad hull .Lots of smiles.

Thats a sweet lookin rig there you restored FMP! Always liked the lines of the Chrysler boats when I was younger and they are timeless. BTW I have really enjoyed this thread and have learned alot about these interesting motors! Gary

[FMP]

Thanks Gary, but our thoughts are with tunnel is his time of frustration.

[Robby321]

Thanks Gary, but our thoughts are with tunnel is his time of frustration.

It will get figured as lotta brains here for help and you are DAMN sure on it! But as subject "Who restores a Bayliner"? I still don't know why bashed so bad. The old Conquer (sp) Liners were simple good looking boats! And I have (and had many boats, still do) a 1988 Force 125, 20 Cuddy. Bought in 94, and STILL keeps on trucking, even sitting in salt. Just stator up grade to Merc, and snapped a DS (salt) as its a 25 inch single that year before went to 2 piece. And as the "dogs boat" and the best all over, do it all boats I ever had! Going on 28 years now, and good thing as the other boats always need something, but simple scooter down marina and go for a ride. Couple pix..

[FMP]

[QUOTE=Robby321;2862271]It will get figured as lotta brains here for help and you are DAMN sure on it! But as subject "Who restores a Bayliner"? I still don't know why bashed so bad. The old Conquer (sp) Liners were simple good looking boats! And I have (and had many boats, still do) a 1988 Force 125, 20 Cuddy. Bought in 94, and STILL keeps on trucking, even sitting in salt. Just stator up grade to Merc, and snapped a DS (salt) as its a 25 inch single that year before went to 2 piece. And as the "dogs boat" and the best all over, do it all boats I ever had! Going on 28 years now, and good thing as the other boats always need something, but simple scooter down marina and go for a ride. Couple pix..


Robby, here the story on that Conq. It was for sale at a dealership in MI. I had the guy send me pics. Claimed it was a 40hr boat. The pics came and a half aassed transom fix. They wanted $8900. I got them to agree to a drill and its wet, so I send a surveyor. 45-95% wood soaked front to back. Hull cracked , never made a 105hp Charger like that, painted cowl. Still wanted it for project , interior great, trailer new . Found a previous owner in AL. Had a good talk with him. Still wanted the boat, offered good $ for it and no deal . SO someone has it as a tow around behind a Mopar muscle car for the shows, paid ??? It's growing mushrooms by now. Yours is great, stay on top of the issues and you're golden.

[W2F a V-King]

Those pictures sure look like detonation or pre-ignition damage to me. Different causes between the two, but the end result is the same...two flame fronts coming together causing damage.

I don't understand how raising your existing compression will help, when in fact unless the actual cause is identified it may well worsen the detonation effect. From trying to look close up at some of the piston and head surfaces in the combustion chamber, it looks like there may be some sharp edges. This is a good place for a hot spot to set up for pre-ignition.

Tough call to make looking at pictures..

.100 is just short of 1/8" inch. .125 being 1/8" inch. Seems like an awful lot to me, but I have never built a Force motor before.

Think I'd put the new piston in, follow FMP advice on placing your own marks on the flywheel and verifying that you have spark when you are supposed to.
Your motor will run fine with the compression you have now...later when you are sure all the bugs are out, and all is running properly. Then maybe shave the head if you like to get all you can from the motor.

Just my thoughts...

It's a beautiful rig, and you will get past this

James

WAIT don't cut it yet, that's sounds like way too much let me check on that, your photo of the head didn't show that much left ,look at the thickness at the water passage ,you will be too thin. The numbers you show 130psi with that much clearance .19 and port height mean you can't have much left to cut on the head. I wouldn't go that far into the squish area the head will weaken. Okay just got word , you can cut into that area but maybe not as much as you think, you cut it already. It's your call, but you can flatten that area some, just work the edge smooth.
Just talked about another Chrysler triple, did it to 195 psi, turned onto a real anger little motor.

3 spots on the deflector lower side near the cyl wall. And I 'll put up a complete build start to finish when I get the latest one finished .Need time to get everything else done. That last boat I restored I didn't take any pics, worked through the winter to get it in the water by spring. Complete tear out , plus motor top to bottom. Didn't feel like taking pics just wanted to get it done right the first time. 105cubic inch 140. 040+ Wiseco's and all the rest. 1.73 powerflow lower . CHRYSLER Hydro-Vee 17 ' BR walk through , delta vee pad hull .Lots of smiles.

[FMP]

He must first determine that it's firing when it's suppose to. The narrow squish band on the transfer side of the deflector , as the charge is ignited the wide not tight enough or large clearance in this area will actualy worsen the problem. With a tighter clearance this will force the flame out and up and over the deflector to the center of the chamber lessening the chance of causing damage and making more power. You want this area tight as you can. Ideal for this would be tighter than .040. I know this from one of the best two stroke men in the business. Sounds opposite to what you expect but with good fuel and proper timing it works. The maximum squish velocity with that much clearance is much to low and the flame front will not burn the fuel air mix effectively, if msv is too high then detonation. To achieve the best results with a tight squish band you may have cyl psi that is too high so working the chamber on the opposite side of the deflector will get your cc's back and psi in the range you want. And yes he is looking at 0.100 or 1/10 inch to try and achieve the clearance. Problem is gasket thickness and deck height. But 165-195psi should be in reach with cutting the head but it may still be a loose squish band but better msv.

[W2F a V-King]

He must first determine that it's firing when it's suppose to. The narrow squish band on the transfer side of the deflector , as the charge is ignited the wide not tight enough or large clearance in this area will actualy worsen the problem. With a tighter clearance this will force the flame out and up and over the deflector to the center of the chamber lessening the chance of causing damage and making more power. You want this area tight as you can. Ideal for this would be tighter than .040. I know this from one of the best two stroke men in the business. Sounds opposite to what you expect but with good fuel and proper timing it works. The maximum squish velocity with that much clearance is much to low and the flame front will not burn the fuel air mix effectively, if msv is too high then detonation. To achieve the best results with a tight squish band you may have cyl psi that is too high so working the chamber on the opposite side of the deflector will get your cc's back and psi in the range you want. And yes he is looking at 0.100 or 1/10 inch to try and achieve the clearance. Problem is gasket thickness and deck height. But 165-195psi should be in reach with cutting the head but it may still be a loose squish band but better msv.

Just wondering why the issue is related to one cylinder if all 3 were done the same?
I do understand quench, and it's purpose to better atomize a/f charge, and it's effect on charge velocity in the combustion chamber. But why did just one hole go bad then?
There is a gremlin in that bottom hole dang it .... .
So the bottom cylinder gets cooled first, also the bottom carb is fueled first?? Correct?
Jus thinkin out loud here..The guy has put his heart and soul into this build, and everybody here wants to help him get it completed and in the water..

James

[olboatman]

Thanks Gary, but our thoughts are with tunnel is his time of frustration.

I agree and Robby is correct that the expertise on this site will help him along. Gone are the days when we "hobbists" had to deal with issues like these alone. We all learn from our own and others problems. jmo Gary

[FMP]

Don't think it's a cooling cyl hot issue or a carb lean issue because the it looks so close in colour to the other two, pics aren't like having it in front of your own eyes so .... When did the damage happen? Before the colour(canadian color) and it ran like that for a few hrs? Sounds strong on the muffs at first start up. Did a lean out or crap fuel during the first runs do it? Trigger off on #3 or just an oatmeal piston. He said it didn't get too hot during the runs. Don't like the varnish look except on wood.