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  1. #16
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    Thanks. I hadn't heard anyone mentioning disconnecting it permanently and adjusting the timing before. I know where it is and can disconnect it with no issue. Most of our usage is mid-range for water skiing and tubing. Does the timing still need to be advanced when top-end performance isn't the goal?

    Trevor

  2. #17
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    You only have to adjust timing if its a combination module the does idle and high speed timing. There are 3 different modules, the XR4 module did idle high speed advance and retard. 200 did high speed and idle, the rest were just idle. They all can screw up and cause head screwing issues or worse.

    Dave
    1980 Cougar 19 tunnel,90 2.4L Bridgeport EFI in middle of restoration.
    1988 BAJA Sunsport 186, 96 225 Pro Max
    79 12' Auminum, 95 Merc 9.9
    RIP Stu
    "So many idiots, so few bullets"

  3. #18
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    well you should check your WOT timing anyway, so after you remove the module and throw it into the deepest part of the ocean, check your timing. I use the Joe Reeves method, you can google it. it works great for me, I check it going down the river afterwards, dead on every time.

  4. #19
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    I believe mine is the 3 wire, idle only model. i think the high speed and idle one has black, white, green & red wires if I read my manual correctly.
    I'm heading back to check things out. I'll try to get to the timing checked tonight.

  5. #20
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    All 3 can cause crazy ignition issues, so pull it off and see what happens. No need to worry about link and sync if it ran fin before. Get rid of poss issues, when it it hits . Do a full link and sync.
    I'm assuming it ran fine at one time ?

    Dave
    1980 Cougar 19 tunnel,90 2.4L Bridgeport EFI in middle of restoration.
    1988 BAJA Sunsport 186, 96 225 Pro Max
    79 12' Auminum, 95 Merc 9.9
    RIP Stu
    "So many idiots, so few bullets"

  6. #21
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    The motor ran fine a couple of years ago, then slowly, a miss developed, then it started overheating one weekend due to a bad impeller, and then last summer the miss just got so bad it seemed always to be running on no more than 4-5 cylinders even WOT. We changed the trigger, messed around with stuff and it got mildly better, but it's never completely run right in the last couple of years.

    Tonight, rectifier disconnected, the idle stabilizer disconnected, and the stator in the new position and the miss is less pronounced, and the engine is better. When it's WOT, it is definitely hitting on all 6 and goes like a bat out of hell. But from a dead stop, it's still a dog, right up till it hits somewhere around 3000 RPM.

    We (my dad and I) tried to check the voltage on the green wires, but for some reason couldn't get a reading, however we did check the spark and that's where things got interesting...
    Pulling the wires 1 at a time, the engine just about dies when we pull the wires from 3 & 5. All of the other wires make no difference at all to the engine's tone whatsoever. This is when we started using the spark tester (coil tester) and when it was connected to 3 & 5, the spark was hitting at the 40kv level. None of the other coils seemed to get there. Most of them around 20-25kv, some hit the 30kv. Also, when they couldn't jump the gap, the spark came out the top of the coil and jumped to ground through the wire or around the base of it at the coil.

    I didn't have time to check the timing or to do the Sea Foam. I may head back tomorrow night and try to get those things done.

    Any thoughts on the coils? Is it possible I could have 4 bad coils!?? If one had gone bad, would it start pulling other ones down with it??

  7. #22
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    You should check your reeds. Sometimes worn or cracked reeds can make an engine seem like its missing especially at idle.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by trevstar View Post
    Tonight, rectifier disconnected, the idle stabilizer disconnected, and the stator in the new position and the miss is less pronounced, and the engine is better. When it's WOT, it is definitely hitting on all 6 and goes like a bat out of hell. But from a dead stop, it's still a dog, right up till it hits somewhere around 3000 RPM.
    this kinda points toward low side stator, timing, rectifier as suspect...



    Also, when they couldn't jump the gap, the spark came out the top of the coil and jumped to ground through the wire or around the base of it at the coil.
    this might be plug wires and boots....


    Any thoughts on the coils? Is it possible I could have 4 bad coils!?? If one had gone bad, would it start pulling other ones down with it?
    coils are usually one of tha least problem parts on tha thing...
    I would also revisit tha carbs if ya didn't use new gaskets.. especially tha little "triangle" shaped ones.... some are lucky with used stuff but I can't recall ever gettin' away with it.....wh gaskets are CHEAP....

  9. #24
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    tlw,
    The stator was replaced on the weekend; the trigger last year; the rectifier isn't connected, and the timing was set last summer. I can order plug wires and the gaskets. The problem is nobody stocks this stuff around here - it's always order it and wait a week for it to come in. Every trial with a new part is at least a 2 week episode.

    I can't wrap my head around the low voltage on all but 2 cylinders. It seems that it has to mean something - I just don't know what.

  10. #25
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    anything more ona "key board" would be justa guess... ya might try movin' stuff around ta see if tha problem "follows" or stays where its at..... donno?

  11. #26
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    Ya, pretty hard for you guys to help more than you have already.
    We moved stuff around last year and the problem stayed put, although I had the cylinders wrong when i started the thread. It's always been 3&5 that were strong - I looked back through the notes i made last year. I suspect we'll probably mess around with it more this weekend, but I'll likely admit defeat and end up just taking it to the marina and put my life in their hands.

  12. #27
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    Older motors can sometimes get weak magnets or cracked in the flywheel. But you need to start with the basics first. Give your head a shake and start at square one. Loose the idle stabilizer, do a complete link and sync see how it runs. As was said if you did carbs and used old gaskets shame on you, thats a never do. You could try switching switch box's and see what happens. But before you go further loose the module and make sure the link and sync is good, including checking the timing pointer position. When you do the link and sync set it then recheck it till it always is the same. Best advise I can give on the puter.

    Dave
    1980 Cougar 19 tunnel,90 2.4L Bridgeport EFI in middle of restoration.
    1988 BAJA Sunsport 186, 96 225 Pro Max
    79 12' Auminum, 95 Merc 9.9
    RIP Stu
    "So many idiots, so few bullets"

  13. #28
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    Hi Dave,
    Sorry, I'm not sure what a "complete link and sync" is.

    As for the shame on me comment - I said, I'm not a mechanic, and some earlier in the thread said no need to change gaskets, others say do it. And on the point about the gaskets, keep in mind that last year we were trying to fix the boat on the weekend at the cottage when it was really struggling to run, and I didn't have a spare set of gaskets lying around. We thought we'd check the carbs for any obvious problems, just to be thorough. I would have had to just stop working on the motor and wait 2 weeks to get the gaskets ordered and tested. We didn't pull, pry or use any solvents or tools to remove the gaskets. My dad is pretty skilled as a mechanic, and I trust him with stuff like that implicitly. The fact that he can't help me diagnose the issue is a testament to his lack of knowledge of CD ignitions, and our lack of proper testing equipment, not a testament to his skill as a mechanic (he's from the days of points and magnetos!). And the fact that it wasn't one pair of cylinders, but 4 of them, on three different carb banks that weren't firing well led me to believe it probably wasn't a carb problem anyway. The engine didn't change one bit after we took the carbs apart.

    At any rate, I don't know who knows what about my motor here - I'm doing my best to filter and sort and test and respond to everyone as they recommend, but it can be a challenge when suggestions conflict or tell me it's a stator when the stator was just changed on the weekend. I can't just go buy another stator and put it in and then take it back if it's wrong. I appreciate the help - very sincerely, I do, but I'm struggling to figure out the problem without continuing to throw money at the problem. And I know it's just as difficult for all of you to follow along and figure out what's happening when it's not your hands on the tools and motor and you're only getting part of the information you want from me.

    As I posted above, I'll order the gaskets and wires, but it will likely be a minimum 10 days to get the parts, so it could be a while before I'm able to post back with any results. Or - i might just take it to the dealer who can have it back to me in a couple weeks - and then my next post will just be what was wrong, and how much it cost to fix it, in case someone else has the same problem somewhere down the road.

    We'll be messing around with it this weekend and I've ordered the parts to build a DVA to help with diagnosing the problem (i.e. checking the voltages on the green wires that go to the coils). We'll be doing a thorough test of all the ignition components this weekend. Work has been busy and so I haven't had as much time as I've wanted to work on the motor.

    Thanks again to everyone for the help. I'll continue to keep you posted and will be checking back often to see if anyone has any new ideas.

  14. #29
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    Go to the manual and start at the begining of the link and sync part in the manual and follow it from start to end Do not miss or bypass anything. Check each step untill its the same everytime. If the baisics ain't right nothing is then start looking . I've been doing carbs since the late 70's not many people that can dona good job. 1st thing you need to know are the 7 circuits of a carb and look for issuses as you disassemble and clean, all them little passages are import and you need to know what to look for. Can of carb kleen and some compressed air don't cut it.

    Dave
    1980 Cougar 19 tunnel,90 2.4L Bridgeport EFI in middle of restoration.
    1988 BAJA Sunsport 186, 96 225 Pro Max
    79 12' Auminum, 95 Merc 9.9
    RIP Stu
    "So many idiots, so few bullets"

  15. #30
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    Thanks Dave. I have the Seloc manual, not the Mercury one. I guess I'll order that tonight and hope for it to get here soon.

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