Where you gonna launch?, What you gonna pay?

[Backfire]

Check this out!
SELLING OUR LAKES - One boat launch at a time


We have just been made aware of a strategy by the Corp of Engineers that reduces access to the lakes that our tax dollars built. We keep getting more reports from around the country where this is happening.

These new leasing policys cut off access to the average fisherman and boater - as well as DISCRIMINATE against anyone who does not reside in the managing city by charging us more to launch our boats. These citys benefit from being on the lake through higher property taxes and conventions, not to mention the taxes on gasoline, bait and supplies we purchase when visiting these lakes.

In the past fishermen could buy an annual pass that would allow you access to launch a boat at Corp lakes all over the state of Texas and parts of Oklahoma. This appears to be disappearing - if something isn't done to change the current course.

On Grapevine Lake and Lewisville Lake they have allowed bordering cities to lease the boat ramps, and we were told by the Corp of Engineers that they can charge whatever fees they want! There is also NO RECIPROSITY between these particular launches and/or other lakes!

In the case of Grapevine Lake, the increases are as much as 300% of what they had been previously. When you add up the cost of boat tags, trailer tags and these launch fees - it is astronomical!

The Corp of Engineers ruined the shoreline with allowing the building of the Opry Hotel on the pristine wilderness of Grapevine Lake - purporting that it would save taxes and provide lake upkeep dollars. You may also find through investigation that the hotel will now control one of the previous public ramps. Follow the dollars - and we can see now who is destined to control and get to ultimately enjoy our lake.

These are everyone's lakes - can we keep it that way? Can't we stop the Corp of Engineers from leasing off their obligation to allow us access to these waterways that our tax dollars paid for?

Your assistance in getting this information out to interested parties is appreciated. Please let everyone know that they can send any information or letters of support to my attention.

Right now it's a one man political action committee - can we make it two?

Greg Billingsly
(817) 481-9900
gbillingsly@netzero.net

Sounds like something we could get behind. What about your Corp lake?
Backfire

[Tom D.]

Where did you get this? This is the first I ever heard of this being done.
I think on opening day some kind of parade with everone I know with a boat to drive thru and circle back to the end of the line and tie things up for a few hours would get some attention.
Where dose the Corp of engineers get these brain storms?

Tom

[sho305]

Wow, that is strange. I think all the lakes in MI are owned by the state for all intensive purposes. There are some smaller private lakes that do not have public access. If you own property on one, you have access. If you mess with the water or flow, or call the DNR--they will come private or not! Any lake/river with a public launch or a public road going into it is public access, then the law says you can walk the 10' shoreline all you want. You go down a road that hits a river here, and there are 20 signs that say keep out, but you have state access anyway.

There are lakes here you can find a launch on that nobody used (on a map) and you find the guy next door mowing it like his yard so nobody knows The lake front owners hate them, but the state will not budge far as I ever heard. A public access allows the DNR to be the law on these lakes and ticket you just like the coast guard.

This must be a federal deal, and I am surprised the sates do not grab them. Michigan says the water is owned by the state, and therefor everyone gets to use it if you have access. The first 10' of shoreline is state access period. I am sure this generates a great income for the state here. There would be little fishing without. Only on a private lake can you get away with running a boat not registered....state $$$.

[Backfire]

I pulled this off the The Hull Truth site. I'll watch that for more information. We are in the Vickburgs District for the Corp. I don't know what Texas is, but if this a policy down from some Ivory Tower, then it would apply to all I would think. I'll talk to the local COE and see what they say. We had a real problem with reserving camp sites a couple of years ago, instead of being able to do it locally, you had to call some place out of state and it was all f#@**! up. Some better now with changed rules but it 'ner took a war to do it.
Backfire

[JTS Racing]

Happened here aprox 8 years ago. Ramps were turned over to the docks at those locations and the Corp itself started charging $3/day at their parks. At that time you could get a yearly pass for $20 or two for $30. The docks rasied the rates at their locations to $5/day with no yearly pass.

A group got together, got the assistance of some pretty good lawyers, who were fishermen, and took it before a federal court. I did have the script and could probably find it if needed. But,,,,,breifly it came down to this. The Corp built the reserivors for the purposes of water or flood control and power generation. These lakes are not public property, they are federally controlled areas that were built with tax dollars just like our military bases, etc.... Out of the goodness of their heart to show they had good intentions, they provided water access for the general public. The "typical" excuse they used was the maintanance of these ramps was now not cost effective and they could no longer afford to maintain them. SO, in order to still provide access they turned the controll over to independent parties to oversee and gave them the rights to charge for that service.

Basically the fight did no good. It didn't matter. They know the majority of the people that play on the water won't give it up over an extra few dollars a year. They were right! The plus is the docks used the money to actually improve parking areas, ramp widths, and lengths. After being against it in the beginning, I now beleive it was a pretty good move, and most of the docks now offer yearly passes.

Jeff

[stvhelm]

Over here if you're not a town resident it cost you 25 bucks to launch your boat. a town resident pays 25 bucks for the sticker thats good for the whole season. its been like that as long as I can remember. only the price was cheaper back then. all the neighboring towns do the same thing.
nothing a scanner and some photo paper cant handle

[Michael Martin]

Down here in SC its between 2 - 5.00 and you can get a yearly pass for 35.00.


STVHELM - I may be reading it incorrectly, but, do you mean itd cost me 25 bucks each time I put in at a ramp.

Between the rising gas cost & that kind of launch fee id just be broke all summer long!!

Mike

[stvhelm]

yes, anyone without a sticker pays $25 to get into the park. Residents pay $25 for the sticker thats good all season. there's a state park thats a little bit out of the way that only charges $5 for anyone. But on weekends it involves sitting in a half hours worth of beach traffic to get there.

[Ron V]

Where I live, I've got a choice. Pay $45 for the village permit that's required to run on our local 300 acre lake, and launch at the neighborhood launch ramp after paying $85 in yearly association dues and $5 for the key to the ramp gate. The $45 buys you the right to use the lake and also the right to get endlessly harassed by Barney Fife in his Boston Whaler.

My other option is to pay $60 a year for the annual Fox Chain 'O Lakes waterway sticker and then either launch at one of the marinas for $15 (no matter where you are from; some have season deals for about $250) or you can launch at the state park for free. The park is a first rate facility but you have to be out by 9 PM.

Usually I wind up opting to do both, since the local lake is clean for skiing and the Chain has 6500 acres and is good for some adventure.

Just over the border in Wisconsin, the towns of Lake Geneva, Fontana, and Williams Bay were raping people for years at the "public" ramps on Lake Geneva. Launching a 18' boat was running something like 30 bucks. This of course would be after waiting in line for about 3 hours on a summer weekend, since the lake is officially closed once the parking lots are full and you have to wait for someone to pull out before you can launch. Then there was a ruling.....here's the part you might be able to use in the fight in your part of the world.......since the lake was owned by the state and fish were stocked by the DNR, it was determined that fees had to be kept reasonable and the DNR wound up refusing to stock the lake with fish if the high fees stayed in place. I don't know how that put pressure on them, since most of the people who use the lake don't fish; all I know is it is now one of the cheapest places in the Chicago-Milwaukee area. Fees now range from $5 to $7.

Being that your lakes are federally owned, it may be a little different. BUT, even if they sell out, some pressure from whoever stocks the fish in the lake may help.

[stvhelm]

all our fish come from the ocean which is about 15 minutes away by boat. The town residents alone are enough to crowd the ramp and fill the lot. the out of towners can use the state ramp for 5 bucks and wait in line. I kind of like it better that way. for my 25 bucks for the sticker I'll use that ramp more than 25 times in a season which is like a buck a day. I have out of town friends that come to our ramp and I can get them in. My Secret

[Forkin' Crazy]

Vicksburg District.

We have a couple of local ramps that charge $2 per day. I purchase a yearly pass. All they do is mow the grass and empty the garbage cans. No repair or upgrades to the ramp or parking lot. The ramp in town is owned by the Corps but is leased to the city and the yearly Corps pass will not fly...

Nothing would really suprise me on the Corps. They are inherently stupid. They actually built an entire park on some land that was not surveyed correctly. In other words they built the entire park on some one elses land!!!!! Ramp, bathrooms, picnic tables, grills, EVERYTHING! Now it is all grown up and useless.

We have another local lake that has been bought and turned in to a "Federal Management Area". I have used this lake for years with a 235 hp on my bass boat. Lake is so congested with trees, stumps, and vegetation, that you could not use the horsepower anyway, yet they dropped the max rating to 50 hp! Now that is discrimination!