Tricks that old racers get up to after retirement

[techteam]

Hmmmnnn. Not that my opinion matters but I know how difficult it is to try and bring something to market. I did a quick search and was surprised to see they had no design or manufacturing capability and seemed to be using outside contractors. They should be congratulated for what they have achieved so far as it can have been neither cheap or easy to come as far as they have. It was always going to be difficult to beat the Mercury V6 which probably ranks among the top 10 greatest engines in the world imho. This sort of stuff is expensive to produce in small numbers and difficult to make reliable in the long term, add in liability and warranty issues its not for the faint hearted. I still would like to see it on a circuit, if they could allow the namesake in F1H2O they should also allow this to run and at least prove it is an answer to the embarrassing situation that currently exists with a one make series that doesn't actually have the manufacturer making the engines anymore.

[jackiewilson]

Hmmmnnn. Not that my opinion matters but I know how difficult it is to try and bring something to market. I did a quick search and was surprised to see they had no design or manufacturing capability and seemed to be using outside contractors. They should be congratulated for what they have achieved so far as it can have been neither cheap or easy to come as far as they have. It was always going to be difficult to beat the Mercury V6 which probably ranks among the top 10 greatest engines in the world imho. This sort of stuff is expensive to produce in small numbers and difficult to make reliable in the long term, add in liability and warranty issues its not for the faint hearted. I still would like to see it on a circuit, if they could allow the namesake in F1H2O they should also allow this to run and at least prove it is an answer to the embarrassing situation that currently exists with a one make series that doesn't actually have the manufacturer making the engines anymore.

Ill agree it’s difficult to bring a new product th the market, —— so a good idea is to keep a low profile—- test until you got it right.
I did have a long conversation with Mathew ——— only thing I asked him was —- price—— did he offer a complete unit , —-or a powerhead——- or a result against another motor?
CRT did come out with some outrageous horsepower figures——- none that could be substantiated.
Dont matter a tinkers cuss whether they do the motor in house ——by remote control—- or whatever.
Its the fact that there are no answers—— no response to any of the questions asked—- ?
Its Been that way for the last three years——

CRT is beautiful——- expensive—— downside is——- unknown ! ——- still no history of success exists ?
You claim CRT should be congratulated on coming this far+———— but just how far have they got ?
Answer is——— as of two weeks ago——— not very far.
I do agree that any engine ever made should be allowed to run——— without competition there is no incentive——— the golden years were when all the manufacturers raced head to head.

[techteam]

How Far ? Very Far, multiple motors that run and seem able to complete a drag race. As for power well you can claim what you want but anything more than 300 I would claim is sufficient at the moment. The big problem is price, I would expect there are not many people willing to lay down that sort of cash at the moment and you can only really bring the price down with volume. Maybe he can sell enough high dollar engines to reinvest and get the volume up to get parts pricing down. I wish him luck, after all he may be the only route some racers have soon so let’s see what develops.

[jackiewilson]

I do worry for the future of F1——- it needs to be opened up to allow anything that runs to do so—— ?
Rules and regulations haVe led to running obsolete and outdated machinery.
Ok , so it gives close racing——- but if the manufacturer is no longer producing the article——- it won’t be long before it’s no longer viable to keep obsolete motors running!
Two strokes are no longer the way to go——- it’s been four strokes for the last few years—- with all manufacturers dropping two strokes!
Racers need production motors to be able to keep up with supply——— or the series will die!
Yes, I know there’s been dissent and in fighting over the Years——- but it needs a concerted effort by all of those concerned to strive for a common end result.
There is also a duty of care by the organisating bodies to ensure the future of F1——
Charlie Shepard invented the term in Powerboat Racing—— long May it continue?

[powerabout]

"close racing"
there is quite a big difference from the front to the back of the pack even with the controlled ecu and same basic components.

[jackiewilson]

"close racing"
there is quite a big difference from the front to the back of the pack even with the controlled ecu and same basic components.

In all forms of racing —— dogs, horses, people, push bikes, motor bikes, planes, boats and cars——— there’s always a “big difference from front to back”.
But up front, there’s usually a few front runners who swop places occasionally——— whether it’s ability, equipment, or simply good luck, I have no idea——- it’s called racing Pilgrim.

[jackiewilson]

Was talking to Billy (Seebold) late into the night ——- we got to talking about the current race situation regarding engines.
We figured the way to go was with a four stroke of proven ability——— mess around with what Mercury have at the moment——- stick it on one of the mid sections ——- and carry on improving gear cases.
Whether Mercury like it or not ——- RACING is a vital part of MERCURY ——- ALWAYS HAS BEEN ?
They still have all the premises ——- facilities——- LAKE X —— and the reputation along with the race personnel ————

Racing without Mercury—— is like eating fish and chips without salt ——— or going to a bar and ordering water———- like it or not——- foundations for Mercury were built on racing.

[powerabout]

Was talking to Billy (Seebold) late into the night ——- we got to talking about the current race situation regarding engines.
We figured the way to go was with a four stroke of proven ability——— mess around with what Mercury have at the moment——- stick it on one of the mid sections ——- and carry on improving gear cases.
Whether Mercury like it or not ——- RACING is a vital part of MERCURY ——- ALWAYS HAS BEEN ?
They still have all the premises ——- facilities——- LAKE X —— and the reputation along with the race personnel ————

Racing without Mercury—— is like eating fish and chips without salt ——— or going to a bar and ordering water———- like it or not——- foundations for Mercury were built on racing.

you forgot about F3 where nobody noticed when they left....and I will excuse them as they raced their modified xflow versus OMC modified looper, the reverse of F1
Anyone can race a one make engine class, and there are plenty
Check out the Merc class, F4 with a stock 4s, yuk
Remind me where all the F1, F4, and xcat money is coming from...it isnt Merc

[jackiewilson]

you forgot about F3 where nobody noticed when they left....and I will excuse them as they raced their modified xflow versus OMC modified looper, the reverse of F1
Anyone can race a one make engine class, and there are plenty
Check out the Merc class, F4 with a stock 4s, yuk
Remind me where all the F1, F4, and xcat money is coming from...it isnt Merc

I didn’t forget anybody Pilgrim ——— at that time, I was talking about F1—- nothing else—— not the funding—— not the promoting—— simply a continuing supply of motors from anywhere——— let’s face it—— today’s F1 motors are vintage, and obsolete——- it don’t take a genius to see that they either change the rules——- find eligible power plants or stop using the F1 title.
Youre right though——— F3 fell quietly into obscurity——-V8’s dissapeared without trace—— andbefore long the only place that will allow F1 is places like Tavares withthe rest of the old farts partaking in vintage events.

[powerabout]

I didn’t forget anybody Pilgrim ——— at that time, I was talking about F1—- nothing else—— not the funding—— not the promoting—— simply a continuing supply of motors from anywhere——— let’s face it—— today’s F1 motors are vintage, and obsolete——- it don’t take a genius to see that they either change the rules——- find eligible power plants or stop using the F1 title.
Youre right though——— F3 fell quietly into obscurity——-V8’s dissapeared without trace—— andbefore long the only place that will allow F1 is places like Tavares withthe rest of the old farts partaking in vintage events.

There are lots of active classes running with old gear, are your suggesting F1 boats should be like F1 cars and be cutting edge?
PTR have modded 225 promax blocks to run in F1, so there is the future supply of blocks.

[jackiewilson]

There are lots of active classes running with old gear, are your suggesting F1 boats should be like F1 cars and be cutting edge?
PTR have modded 225 promax blocks to run in F1, so there is the future supply of blocks.

In the seventies both Mercury and OMC WERE right at the cutting edge of technology!
But—— I guess now PTR have modded the 225 Promax you have the solution !
Course——- If Theres lots of classes running with old gear, then it must be Ok !
What sort of numbers are these “active” classes pulling? Just asking ?

[jackiewilson]

First of her majesty’s tulips———- she has about a dozen planters full of these——- different colours.
These are on the front doorstep, sheltered on three sides with lots of sunshine, so they are a week ahead of the rest.

[powerabout]

In the seventies both Mercury and OMC WERE right at the cutting edge of technology!
But—— I guess now PTR have modded the 225 Promax you have the solution !
Course——- If Theres lots of classes running with old gear, then it must be Ok !
What sort of numbers are these “active” classes pulling? Just asking ?

classes with non purchasable engines from the factory;
F1, seems to be growing in the USA?

[jackiewilson]

Afraid you lost me there Pilgrim—— What — where, and which are the “NON PURCHABLE FACTORY ENGINE” classes.
No doubt about it—— F1 is growing in the USA——— largely due to the efforts of the promotor Tim Seebold and the main sponsor NGK.

[techteam]

classes with non purchasable engines from the factory;
F1, seems to be growing in the USA?

I tried to find Champ rules but failed miserably. Didn't I read somewhere that Champ uses a carburettor power head, with various different blocks being used all no longer available unless built from used parts?