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  1. #6976
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUJIMO View Post
    ...Agreed. Got ta go original. It will cost a couple thousand or so to do it, but worth it in the end. Only way to do it, that I can think of, is to search out an original 1976 V-1750 & build the rest of Old Blue's powerhead, and the rest of a complete motor, with that. Not too hard. There are still a few out there. Some mounted on boats, that might have to be bought along with the motor, but not much choice any more. Sell off the boat, etc. Look in the freshwater states, and they will come apart to be restored, no problem. One trick though, is getting one with the first generation gearcase design. This is it...
    I don't think that will work out Fugimo. Let me explain. --- OLD BLUE was never intended to be run on a boat and does not have any of the necessary mounting points for all sorts of accessories. It was designed to be run on a crankshaft dyno -- period. When running on the crankshaft dyno, all the accessory things like switch box, ignition coil, starter solenoid, fuel supply, water supply, throttle control, were ready mounted in the dyno cell and of course we didn't need a cowl. So trying to make it a runable, cowled boat engine by adding all that stuff will indeed bastardize it. The only thing bastardized about it right now (no offense meant Jackie) are the die cast cylinder heads which I had to put on it just to get it buttoned up and protected from further decay. The original sand cast heads were missing when I found the engine after many years in storage.

    The only reason it's mounted on an undercarriage now is that it looked so good on the dyno, we thought it had a decent chance for production but we first needed to back up the dyno performance with some boat testing. Quickest way to do that was to somehow mount it on the inline six undercarriage. Hense what you see now. John and Jack did that boat testing with OLD BLUE at the lake in March of '72. The test results and some of John's comments about it are given in the MERC V6 HISTORY thread.
    Last edited by rckid74; 01-03-2018 at 07:15 AM.

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  3. #6977
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    Quote Originally Posted by rckid74 View Post
    I don't think that will work out Fugimo. Let me explain. --- OLD BLUE was never intended to be run on a boat and does not have any of the necessary mounting points for all sorts of accessories. It was designed to be run on a crankshaft dyno -- period. When running on the crankshaft dyno, all the accessory things like switch box, ignition coil, starter solenoid, fuel supply, water supply, throttle control, were ready mounted in the dyno cell and of course we didn't need a cowl. So trying to make it a runable, cowled boat engine by adding all that stuff will indeed bastardize it. The only thing bastardized about it right now (no offense meant Jackie) are the die cast cylinder heads which I had to put on it just to get it buttoned up and protected from further decay. The original sand cast heads were missing when I found the engine after many years in storage.

    The only reason it's mounted on an undercarriage now is that it looked so good on the dyno, we thought it had a decent chance for production but we first needed to back up the dyno performance with some boat testing. Quickest way to do that was to somehow mount it on the inline six undercarriage. Hense what you see now. John and Jack did that boat testing with OLD BLUE at the lake in March of '72.
    Mark always wondered what exactly we had with”Old Blue”————- lots of things just didn’t add up——— the old distributor——- the in line leg———- die cast heads——— the more he looked at it, the less sense he could make of it.
    At the moment it would appear the best thing to do is NOTHING, except maybe put a glass case round it.
    I have to say, it’s certainly,——— very suddenly become a really exciting piece of kit——- to this day, I will never understand why Rich or Roger never snapped up this slice of history.
    Its provenance is indisputable so for outboard historians and puritans——— Old Blue is already priceless !
    It was Sirois who told me about all the Lake X test sheets (including the Switzer findings)——— I had never ever set eyes on Old Blue and bought it over the phone.

    What a brilliant start to the new year!

  4. #6978
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackiewilson View Post
    Mark always wondered what exactly we had with”Old Blue”————- lots of things just didn’t add up——— the old distributor——- the in line leg———- die cast heads——— the more he looked at it, the less sense he could make of it.
    At the moment it would appear the best thing to do is NOTHING, except maybe put a glass case round it.
    I have to say, it’s certainly,——— very suddenly become a really exciting piece of kit——- to this day, I will never understand why Rich or Roger never snapped up this slice of history.
    Its provenance is indisputable so for outboard historians and puritans——— Old Blue is already priceless !
    It was Sirois who told me about all the Lake X test sheets (including the Switzer findings)——— I had never ever set eyes on Old Blue and bought it over the phone.

    What a brilliant start to the new year!
    Glad I could help you get the new year off to a good start Jackie. If there's anything further you or Mark would like to know about OLD BLUE just let me know.
    I don't know about priceless but I once estimated it probably cost $50,000 or more to build and that was in 1971 dollars. The crankshaft and rods are from billets and there was no CNC machining back then. It was all operator skill with lots of jigs and fixtures.

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  6. #6979
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    Quote Originally Posted by rckid74 View Post
    Glad I could help you get the new year off to a good start Jackie. If there's anything further you or Mark would like to know about OLD BLUE just let me know.
    I don't know about priceless but I once estimated it probably cost $50,000 or more to build and that was in 1971 dollars. The crankshaft and rods are from billets and there was no CNC machining back then. It was all operator skill with lots of jigs and fixtures.
    How did the rods end up being milled from a billet, were they cracked cap or like inline rods?

  7. #6980
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerabout View Post
    How did the rods end up being milled from a billet, were they cracked cap or like inline rods?
    The rods were from billets because we didn't have forgings at that point. The project had not been approved for production tooling until somewhat later. They were cracked right from the start.

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  9. #6981
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    How strong are billet rods versus forged?
    Do they need to be bigger?
    Last edited by powerabout; 01-02-2018 at 06:22 PM.

  10. #6982
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerabout View Post
    How strong are billet rods versus forged?
    Do they need to be bigger?
    I don't think we should be getting into this kind of a discussion here on Jackie's thread. If you'll ask it again on the Merc V6 history thread I'll be glad to answer there. Thanks

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  12. #6983
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    Quote Originally Posted by rckid74 View Post
    I don't think we should be getting into this kind of a discussion here on Jackie's thread. If you'll ask it again on the Merc V6 history thread I'll be glad to answer there. Thanks
    Seeing as how I have a vested interest in the motor———- and I am one of the custodians and it’s one of the tricks this particular old fart gets up to. I would be happy for the pair of you to hang around and answer any and all questions about old blue

  13. #6984
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackiewilson View Post
    Seeing as how I have a vested interest in the motor———- and I am one of the custodians and it’s one of the tricks this particular old fart gets up to. I would be happy for the pair of you to hang around and answer any and all questions about old blue
    OK Jackie! This isn't exactly about old racers, but I'm willing if you are.
    Are billet rods better than forged? I don't know for sure but if they were both made of the same alloy, I'd prefer the forged because forging forces the grain structure in the steel to flow around the eyes on both ends of the rod and this should improve the fatigue life. But if you aren't going to be putting umpteen million miles on the engine, then billets will work just fine.
    Last edited by rckid74; 01-03-2018 at 06:43 AM.

  14. #6985
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    Quote Originally Posted by rckid74 View Post
    OK Jackie! This isn't exactly about old racers, but I'm willing if you are.
    Are billet rods better than forged? I don't know for sure but if they were both made of the same alloy, I'd prefer the forged because forging forces the grain structure in the steel to flow around the eyes on both ends of the rod and this should improve the fatigue life.
    Thar ya go———- you learn something new everyday——— looking at it from a know nothing layman’s point of view I would go for the milled billet———- no reasons I can give you——— just a gut feeling and some common sense reasoning.
    surely there are less flaws in a large billet you can mill six rods out of, than six forged rods?
    Just me being cranky and argumentative on a subject of which I know nothing!

  15. #6986
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    here's a weird one....
    the rods in the F1v8 are not cracked, 2 separate machined pieces, I dont understand that technology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by powerabout View Post
    here's a weird one....
    the rods in the F1v8 are not cracked, 2 separate machined pieces, I dont understand that technology.
    I'm not sure what engine you're talking about. When you say F1, I assume you're talking F1H20. But I thought those were all 2.5 Merc V6's. But the V8 must be OMC's big 2-stroke. F1 cars had a V8 several years ago but I don't think that's it. It matters if we're 2-stroke or 4-stroke. Straighten me out please.
    Last edited by rckid74; 01-03-2018 at 02:50 PM.

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    Got the blood results back today.
    Turns out the “Athritis” is running riot through all my joints.
    I had already told them I wasn’t old enough to have arthritis .
    Put both hands on the desk and drop your pants————- heard that three times in the last five months ,whist I have a very nice,tight, and much admired rear end——— I hate it being used as a pin cushion.
    So,with these 150 mph painkillers——- steroids and morphine in all the high places—— I’m expecting wonderment and ease.
    Its a great relief to finally know what’s been keeping me out of the shop for so long———.

  18. #6989
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    OLD Blue was originally mounted on a inline 6 tower and foot. As it is still today. A special adaptor plate was cast to accomplish this. Pulling the powerhead off and putting it on a 1750 would make it into something it is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by FUJIMO View Post
    ...Agreed. Got ta go original. It will cost a couple thousand or so to do it, but worth it in the end. Only way to do it, that I can think of, is to search out an original 1976 V-1750 & build the rest of Old Blue's powerhead, and the rest of a complete motor, with that. Not too hard. There are still a few out there. Some mounted on boats, that might have to be bought along with the motor, but not much choice any more. Sell off the boat, etc. Look in the freshwater states, and they will come apart to be restored, no problem. One trick though, is getting one with the first generation gearcase design. This is it...
    L6fan57-88

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    Quote Originally Posted by milkdud View Post
    OLD Blue was originally mounted on a inline 6 tower and foot. As it is still today. A special adaptor plate was cast to accomplish this. Pulling the powerhead off and putting it on a 1750 would make it into something it is not.
    Dont ever worry in that direction——-mark has done some wonderful restoration work on boats and engines ,
    Old Blue will never be anything else other than what it is.
    Yes, we may need a little help from our friends———- but when it’s done,everyone will be happy

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