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02-09-2014, 09:06 AM #196
Morning Charlie,
I respect what you and Chaz both add to this and value you input allot. Your both correct and to convert it into car terms, what I'm doing could possibly be like putting a Holley Dominator on a stock V6 motor......................but I've got to do this to satisfy my thoughts.
As for the Wolf Maps, I didn't generate any new ones as I didn't have enough knowledge to do so in the time I owned that 225 EFI motor that I sold to Dave and what I had was what Ken had generated and or modified. So what ever you found in the maps is maybe what Dave had generated or still the original files from Ken......
Realizing that it's gonna be awhile before the water softens up around here, I've got lots of time to continue to mull over this project and second guess everything I'm doing...... There's nothing that's being done to cause me an issue if in fact I decided to resort back to the OEM Down Draft, so it's all play time right now. I'll post up as progress is made....... be it positive or negative, it'll be here..............
Take Care..........
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02-09-2014, 01:03 PM #197
This is what I like .. honest straight forward thinking ..
The Dominator on a V-6 would work , if it were used only as a throttle body .. asking it to pull fuel thru it's circuitry would leave a bit to be desired ..
I didn't want to get involved in the "adjust-a-jector" thread last week, but I did crunch some numbers.
When I had my injectors flowed, they averaged 483 cc/min or 46 lbs/hr each @ 43.5 psi.
46x6= 276 lbs/hr. If the motor were efficient enough to the industry standard of 1 hp per half a lb of fuel , running the injector at 100% should yield 552 hp . Since 80% duty cycle is more the norm , then @ 43.5 psi would yield 441 hp.
Since a 300x really makes closer to 330 hp in stock trim we would need to face the reality that these things will only make closer to 1 hp per .7 lbs/hr , or 392 / 313 at 100 and 80 % respectively.
Bumping the fuel pressure up to 60 psi shows that if the engine could use that fuel , it had the potential to make 644 / 515 hp @ .5 BSFC 100 / 80 % duty cycle. At a more realistic .7 BSFC they would make 460 / 368 @ 100 / 80 % duty cycle.
Now to me, 256 lbs/hr is a lot of fuel to make 350 hp. I think you guys are on the right track , but the biggest gains will come when you can make more power with less fuel. Today's Pro Stock cars , are as clean as .38 BSFC .. food for thought.
Being one that wont spend $600 dollars to get a fuel curve I know nothing about, I have chosen instead to control the IAT . (for the time being)
I cold start mine @ 50* or aprox 20,000 ohms.
Bump it in and out of gear @ 80* / 9,000 ohms
And have picked up 3 mph on top end and 1/8 tank of gas between here and Ft. Pierce (35 miles) by running at a steady 160* / 1800 ohms at a base of 40 psi.
I'm not a real big fan of the stock downdraft. I think the best set-up would be to have something like a SVS in a V configuration , where each cyls air valve would be in line with it's corresponding rod slot ... then maybe something like an E-tech's three valve , common plenum design ... in any event , I applaud you and Charlie both for steppin outside the box ..
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02-09-2014, 01:46 PM #1981980 Cougar 19 tunnel,90 2.4L Bridgeport EFI in middle of restoration.
1988 BAJA Sunsport 186, 96 225 Pro Max
79 12' Auminum, 95 Merc 9.9
RIP Stu
"So many idiots, so few bullets"
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02-09-2014, 05:46 PM #199
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02-09-2014, 06:13 PM #200
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02-09-2014, 06:39 PM #201
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02-10-2014, 01:46 AM #2025000 RPM
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Don't you love these 3.0l mercs tough as nails. Gary how are ya mate good to see ya posting again.
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02-13-2014, 04:49 AM #203
Charlie, your way over due.........
Hey Rick, how's the New Z weather, gotta be better than it is here.....lol. Winter here has sorta put a damper on the project, too cold to even think about work'n in the shop with temps below zero for awhile. Warm up on the way next week, upper 40's, hot damm back to work we go.
I did some bench testing of the new fuel spray bar system and it had its pros and cons. The cons have won that battle and forced me to rethink the design. Once the fuel solenoid shuts off the residual pressure in the line caused an "Pee Stream" of fuel as the pressure was bleeding down ( I should have seen that coming), that would not be a good thing when coming off WOT and I'd be seeing a super rich condition for awhile. So it's back to the drawing board and I've designed a spray nozzle this time with an internal check valve that positively shuts off all fuel instantly once the fuel solenoid turns off. Built a proto type for bench testing and it worked like a charm, so gotta build 6 new ones and move allot of stuff around to make room for the 6 new nozzles and the fuel rail that feeds the nozzles, also gotta move the TPS again as well as the IAT sensor as it's currently located in one of the old injector holes. New TPS linkage too as well for the TPS once it's relocated. It's allot of work all over again, but it's gonna be right or not at all. More to come later.
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02-14-2014, 12:07 AM #2045000 RPM
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Gary hey bud.
Summer here ant that flash been so flat out fixn everyones old **** and lack of maintaince for the pass few years been doing monster hours and its been quite windy. had some good days racing and tuning. did a demo run at a hydroplane and f1 boat weekend, we ran my mates ski boat in MOD VP with a 300x that I helped mod.
We have kilo runs soon so want to run it there. 19.5 foot modded 300x 109mph on gps with a 30et 6700rpm
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02-14-2014, 05:00 AM #205
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02-20-2014, 05:04 AM #206
Current update on progress, had to scrap the original 2 rail spray bar system due to numerous issues that weren't thought of when I started those......, I should have known better, just didn't think it out enough. Everything shown is in "MOCK UP STAGE".
So here's where I'm at now and there are "NO ISSUES" at all, bench tested and works beautiful. Still have to do some additional work as the TPS was moved back to its original OEM location, need to mod the VST support plate for throttle arm clearance, fab up new linkage to drive TPS off top throttle blade shaft at my current 2:1 ratio of TPS advance and relocate the fuel solenoid micro switches. New design is comprised of 6 custom made secondary injector nozzles and a new fuel rail for the 6 nozzles. This should fix any lack of fuel issues at WOT...... All that's needed now is some warmer weather as it'll be ready when the weather breaks to get out and test............
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02-21-2014, 12:01 AM #207
Gary ,
Most enguu-neerz types I know, that don't like the facts ... just change the questions around till they align with their theory ...
The check valves ... muy bueno
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02-21-2014, 03:40 AM #208
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02-21-2014, 06:51 AM #209
Nice clean installation, looks OEM..
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03-02-2014, 06:50 AM #210
Thanks Tony, but I've hit another bump in the road. Thought I'd bench test the setup at full EFI pump pressure and flow in my test tank before the real install......well, it failed after running for 5 minutes. Each nozzle one by one slowly quit flowing. There's some sort of filter material in the spray nozzles that's breaking down when the fuel runs through it, i.e. Self plugging and No Spray !!!!!!!!!
Rather than keep trying to reinvent the wheel, I'm going to just run another set of injectors, modified to perform like my original nozzle design was supposed to. Injectors are on there way to be flowed/adjusted/calibrated to flow the same cc/min as my nozzles did. Once there back I'll update further progress as I still need to put a wire harness together with the proper electrical plugs for the injectors and tie it into my triggering system.
To be continued......