Aces IV

[wired247]

Refer to Post #12 Guys. Test results and direct contact number>. Charlie (mrcrsr)? you want to call Brian about this thread or should I? Maybe he will be happy to enlighten us all.

Those arent test results. For testing to be meaningful there has to be a control subject and it has to be double blind where the administrator of the test and the tester do not know which fuel samples are which and/or which engines are using the doctored fuel sample. Having someone run the stuff and then tearing the motor apart to proclaim it's good to go is meaningless and fraught with the potential for intentional or unintentional bias.

A knock cylinder is going to tell you everything you want to know without having to destroy a couple of drag engines. Show me that and I'll believe.

[h2oskiier30]

Wired...a simple question. If you've already admitted that the ACES folks don't claim that it's an octane booster, what do you hope to prove/disprove by running it through a knock engine?

Also, don't get too caught up in the whole "double blind" thing. If you're having an independent lab do the testing, a blind test doesn't matter. They'll give you non-biased results regardless. A double blind is useful when there's a possibility of bias.

[wired247]

I just find it striking that no one has done an actual knock engine test of this stuff and the claims I see thrown around are quite literally too good to be true. It might cost me a few bucks of my own but maybe it will save someone from making a costly mistake based on misinformation they read on the internet. I am that guy who makes a good living and refuses to give to charity. Think of this as my charity.

Wired...a simple question. If you've already admitted that the ACES folks don't claim that it's an octane booster, what do you hope to prove/disprove by running it through a knock engine?

Also, don't get too caught up in the whole "double blind" thing. If you're having an independent lab do the testing, a blind test doesn't matter. They'll give you non-biased results regardless. A double blind is useful when there's a possibility of bias.

[baja200merk]

I was hoping to run this stuff in a 3.3 im building. Figuring a little more punch would be fun. We normally run 140psi and we have gotten away with 150 with a small prop on 93 but put a big wheel on it or a couple passengers it would burn down. I was hoping to get away with 160-170 with aces. Think it will happen?

[h2oskiier30]

Let me rephrase my question: If the guy doesn't claim that it's an octane booster, and you prove that it's not an octane booster...what have you proven? That he was telling the truth that it's not an octane booster?

I don't use the stuff, so let's get that out there on the table...so I'm not defending ACES by any means. I used a small amount of it a couple of years ago, simply to see if I noticed any effects. The only thing I noticed is a lessening in the amount of carbon build-up on my piston tops, but there are a number of products that can produce that result. I don't run enough compression on my engines to require anything above 93, so that's what I run....93 non-ethanol gasoline along with Klotz Outboard at 32:1. Just trying to figure out the "angle" here.

I'm intrigued by the stuff, simply because I've heard tons and tons of success stories with it...and no disaster-related stories. There seem to be a lot of people running it with what they deem to be success above and beyond what their fuel's octane yield should allow. Surely they're not all running detuned engines on light boats with small wheels simply to make ACES a winner? I'd love to hear some disaster stories if there are any out there. I have an open mind about such things...especially fuel related, working in a refinery and all...even if I don't plan on having a use for such stuff.

[wired247]

I am not bashing ACES so dont get me wrong. I am just saying that Ive seen a lot of anecdotal stories from people using the stuff and I havent seen any evidence to support those claims. Maybe it does work great at lubricating valves but thats not a concern in 2 cycles and its really not a concern in 4 cycles either to be honest. Its more to satisfy my own curiosity. I see numbers thrown around like "raises octane effect by 6 points" . That means nothing . octane is octane and if it does something other than raise octane its not going to prevent your engine from detonating.
2 cycle folks seem to over-octane their engines more than most people so stepping back to an appropriate grade of fuel gains them power and they assume its the additive. A 64 mustang with a 2 barrel 289 has 160 lbs cranking compression but you don't see people clamoring to run 93+ octane it it.

[HStream1]

All I'll say is. Try running a 190 psi motor on 93 oct at 25*/27* timing and see what happens. KABOOM and if you race as you claim, you of all people should know that.

Charlie says he will call Brian and hopefully he will chime in. I believe Brian did run this Snake formula on a Knock engine. Lets see what transpires. But I know first hand it works.

Like I suggested earlier call the number I provided and speak with the man personally.

[racerx]

I know for fact that a engine builder that builds hundreds of motors a week told a guy up hear to put aces in his twin rig with 170lbs compression and kaboom went those engine in less then a 15 min pass,if the motor needs higher octane in it use it...

[wired247]

All I'll say is. Try running a 190 psi motor on 93 oct at 25*/27* timing and see what happens. KABOOM and if you race as you claim, you of all people should know that.

Charlie says he will call Brian and hopefully he will chime in. I believe Brian did run this Snake formula on a Knock engine. Lets see what transpires. But I know first hand it works.

Like I suggested earlier call the number I provided and speak with the man personally.

I dont race boats. I run a boat with 150 PSI cranking compression that runs just fine on 91 octane. I race cars. I have a 69 Camaro with a 20% overdriven 8-71 blower on a 502 and a 68 Cougar with a 13:1 438 inch small block ( quicker of the two actually ) . I wouldnt run anything less than 98 octane in the Camaro but the 438 will run just fine on 93 octane due to the cam lobe overlap. I certainly wouldnt run a mixture of wax, toluene and naphtha in concentrations so small that it wouldnt do anything in either one. Just going by the MSDS, the stuff is bunk. There isnt anything in there that would raise octane or prevent detonation and unless I see a knock engine report there really isnt any way to convince me otherwise.

[HStream1]

That was Skydog and it's only one case of this happening and no proof that ACES caused the damage. I'm not here to defend ACES but I am here to attest that it does work. LIKE I SAID EARLIER AND POSTED. CALL THE GUY THAT FORMULATED IT> and stop all the BS. If Brian says he did not run this Snake formula in a knock motor then maybe I'll also be concerned. But i'll take real world testing over a knock test anyday. Same goes for a dyno happy motor. I've seen dyno happy motors get there arse handed to them in 10 seconds or less.

BTW John Force usess this Snake Formula so I was told.

I know for fact that a engine builder that builds hundreds of motors a week told a guy up hear to put aces in his twin rig with 170lbs compression and kaboom went those engine in less then a 15 min pass,if the motor needs higher octane in it use it...

[wired247]

That was Skydog and it's only one case of this happening and no proof that ACES caused the damage. I'm not here to defend ACES but I am here to attest that it does work. LIKE I SAID EARLIER AND POSTED. CALL THE GUY THAT FORMULATED IT> and stop all the BS. If Brian says he did not run this Snake formula in a knock motor then maybe I'll also be concerned. But i'll take real world testing over a knock test anyday. Same goes for a dyno happy motor. I've seen dyno happy motors get there arse handed to them in 10 seconds or less.

BTW John Force usess this Snake Formula so I was told.

Pay John Force enough and he would swear he uses fuel line magnets. To be honest from what Ive seen and more telling what I havent seen of this stuff I think fuel line magnets might be more effective. My belief got suspended once they used the word catalyst.

[Dave Strong]

This is getting right up there with the best oil threads.
I don't give a HOOT about the so called SCIENCE behind it, for me the stuff works. No longer need to purchase expensive race fuel to mix and make my motors last, just use ACES and have no worries. Not interested in exactly what it does just know it works for me and lot of others on this site.
And as the old saying goes DON'T KNOCK TILL YA TRY IT.

Dave

[wired247]

So what does it do for you that straight gas doesnt and why do you think you need high octane fuel in the first place?

This is getting right up there with the best oil threads.
I don't give a HOOT about the so called SCIENCE behind it, for me the stuff works. No longer need to purchase expensive race fuel to mix and make my motors last, just use ACES and have no worries. Not interested in exactly what it does just know it works for me and lot of others on this site.
And as the old saying goes DON'T KNOCK TILL YA TRY IT.

Dave

[h2oskiier30]

I know for fact that a engine builder that builds hundreds of motors a week told a guy up hear to put aces in his twin rig with 170lbs compression and kaboom went those engine in less then a 15 min pass,if the motor needs higher octane in it use it...

Weren't there a lot of other issues surrounding those motors? Seems like I vaguely remember something about accusations that the original port heights were too high from either Diamond or JSRE...so high that the boat would hardly even get on plane...and one or the other "fixed" them, then the engines blew up? Is that remotely familiar?

[wired247]

Just got off the phone with a testing lab. $250 for the test using the spectroscopy method or $600 for the knock engine method. I'll do some more shopping around. If I can find something local I won't have to send it hazmat.