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  1. #106
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    I think boats with notches need to be looked at differently as far as length. After all, the wetted surface is what really count.

  2. #107
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    I have my boat in the shop next to me off the trailer so if anyone wants to come and weigh it and take measurements be my guess
    People say I'm lazy but it takes all my time

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brabender View Post
    I don't think any boat in this day and age should have a carpeted floor.
    snap in carpet over a inner liner is much better in my humble opinion

    My biggest gripe on the progression.
    I am sure the liner adds some weight to the other boats....
    Probably adds strength too. Gel sprayed in a mold will be more stain
    resistant as well (than rolled after thought)
    Capet also hides a lot of booboos
    I dissagree,first you can see failure starting to happen under carpet,how would you ever see failure behind a linner that is only glued in and adds no structural integrity.Not to mention progression is a custom builder and will put a tub in if someone wants it,but it also adds weight.
    27 Progression IO 22 Progression 300xs sold http://youtu.be/_K8boEfKrx4

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by goneby View Post
    I dissagree,first you can see failure starting to happen under carpet,how would you ever see failure behind a linner that is only glued in and adds no structural integrity.Not to mention progression is a custom builder and will put a tub in if someone wants it,but it also adds weight.
    How can u see though carpet? You must have super x ray vision
    point is that other boats with liner are close in weight... I didn't know Kevin had a

    full mold for a liner. Never saw one that way. Carpet stays wet for quite a while
    very difficult to rinse out.... Not even sure Kevin fully bags all the laminate
    Progression is very nice well built. ,but.......

    Tuff is infused,... Better resin to glass control this way, much stronger product....
    would really like to see a tuff make it down this way
    Formula 260ss 496HO

    Bender Clan Member

  5. #110
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    The "new build" rough water SOB model line-up available for 2013 ............Tuff, Progression, Bernico, Nordic, Sutphen. Happy New Year
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  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brabender View Post
    How can u see though carpet? You must have super x ray vision
    point is that other boats with liner are close in weight... I didn't know Kevin had a

    full mold for a liner. Never saw one that way. Carpet stays wet for quite a while
    very difficult to rinse out.... Not even sure Kevin fully bags all the laminate
    Progression is very nice well built. ,but.......

    Tuff is infused,... Better resin to glass control this way, much stronger product....
    would really like to see a tuff make it down this way
    In my opinion A full liner is just a Pain in the A**, when you need to get behind the liner to work on the boat..... Intimidator has a mold for a floor pan which just gets pasted to the stringers, and tabbed to the bottom of the boat.. Very light, and simple to remove if need be. As far as the progression carpet argument, I understand why Kevin carpets the boats, Faster production, finished appearance, gas tank is easily accessible, repairs under the floor are easily done (minimal finish work).... He will give you a nonskid floor if you want. This is how I did my boat, which I like much better

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  8. #112
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    I would love to see an infused 22 Progression with a ballast tank and just two seats....really simple and fast....Set up right with a nice 300X and over 100 on a daily basis is possible....now in rough water with a full ballast tank it wouldnt be as fast but i bet you could still give most other V ottoms the business in moderate water.....a 24LD progression done the same way would be killer....But as i have said before all of the choices available for sale today from and of these Custom boat builders are a good choice...alot has to do with personal preference....I like my 23 Kryptonite but others think its ugly and stupid....des that make it a bad boat NO....we all hear about how fast the TUFF is and how well its built but there is something that keeps everyone aound here from buying....What that is i dont know...I mean there are guys spending $20-30k on old superboats and making them new again but they wont go buy a tuff....Personally i like the fact that my Kryptonite as well as Progression, Superboat and Activator are or were all built locally and you can interact with the builder and the builders will do whatever you the buyer wants....I am not a fan of carpet in a boat and i know that if i bought a new progression Kevin would build it the way i want it....I could stop by the factory and watch my boat take form and that is important where the tuff is built a zillion miles away and stopping by the factory wouldnt be as easy.....Personally I like to keep my business as local as possible and both superboat and progression are built in Copiague where i live so they would be at the top of my list should i build a new boat....The choice of which one would depend on my financial situation as well as what i want to do with the boat.....
    Last edited by ghost28; 01-01-2013 at 02:19 PM.
    1984 28 ghost twin 200 Yamah ProVs (SOLD)
    1997 21 Superboat Legend 250 VMAXXX (SOLD)
    2001 25 Concept CC 250EFI (SOLD)
    2002 24 Superboat Step 250EFI (SOLD)
    1997 21 Checkmate Pulsare 200EFI Merc (Beater Boat)(SOLD)
    1994 20 Hydrasport 225 Optimax (SOLD)
    1998 27 progression Twin 225 Mercs (SOLD)
    2005 23 Kryptonite 300 Promax (FOR SALE)

  9. #113
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    Brabender , I never said I could see through the carpet,but I did have personnal experience with my 1988 25ft checkmate that I bought new,at less than a year old I could see a lump In the floor between the bolsters. PS boat floor and deck wound up being rebuilt at checkmate expense,just saying you cant see that through a linner.As far as Progression they show there build process on there web site and Im sure Kevin would explain full process if anyone gives him a call.PS well said Goast28
    Last edited by goneby; 01-01-2013 at 02:39 PM.
    27 Progression IO 22 Progression 300xs sold http://youtu.be/_K8boEfKrx4

  10. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeylarge View Post
    As far as the progression carpet argument, I understand why Kevin carpets the boats, Faster production, finished appearance, gas tank is easily accessible, repairs under the floor are easily done (minimal finish work).... He will give you a nonskid floor if you want.
    That's hitting the nail onthee head Mike
    Rolled non skid will not hold up the same way a gel coated liner will. Although yours is very nice!
    Kevin didnt offer no carpet when I bought mine, and the spots I asked not be carpeted were left unfinished...

    You say the liner is easily removed..... So why is it a problem again..... I am confused about that... Sorry.

    Let get the thread back on track
    its fastest not. Best built debate.

    But fastest how? In a 30 lap race? In the flats? In the rough?
    Any can be good at one depending on hp, setup combo,
    but none will be good at all without varying combos

    I say let's try a around long island run put up or shut up
    Formula 260ss 496HO

    Bender Clan Member

  11. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brabender View Post
    That's hitting the nail onthee head Mike
    Rolled non skid will not hold up the same way a gel coated liner will. Although yours is very nice!
    Kevin didnt offer no carpet when I bought mine, and the spots I asked not be carpeted were left unfinished...

    You say the liner is easily removed..... So why is it a problem again..... I am confused about that... Sorry.

    Let get the thread back on track
    its fastest not. Best built debate.

    But fastest how? In a 30 lap race? In the flats? In the rough?
    Any can be good at one depending on hp, setup combo,
    but none will be good at all without varying combos

    I say let's try a around long island run put up or shut up
    The floorpan intimidator uses is not a liner...... Gel coated nonskid done in a mold absolutely holds up the best until you have to repair a void or a crack in it, then at that point you might as well sand it all off and spray nonskid over it....... Or you can do a repair with a flex mold and as you know it never looks right ....

  12. #116
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    But fastest how? In a 30 lap race? In the flats? In the rough?
    Any can be good at one depending on hp, setup combo,
    but none will be good at all without varying combos

    I say let's try a around long island run put up or shut up[/QUOTE]

    Brabender... Exactlly what I was arguing 100 post ago... There has to be a compromise

    I think around long island is a little extreme in a 21' ... How about around shelter island that was a good 65 mile run with no 5 mph zones and plenty of varied water
    77 challenger 200 yami
    82 shadow 3.6 gt sold
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=g...&v=09QazIq2FgY

  13. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brabender View Post
    Tuff is infused,... Better resin to glass control this way, much stronger product....
    would really like to see a tuff make it down this way
    As an OPTION, and one that saved very little weight over a 25 year old challenger.
    Does it add strength? Sure does but its not like 21 supers are falling apart everyday, as long as the wood has stayed dry you have to give some credit to that old mat woving mat layup. Bender, eddy, rick- these guys drive their boats pretty hard and these were just old 21s right off the lot- nothing special about them.

    Maybe i read the response wrong but I took a little offense to the boat from the north insinuating it is that much better then the originals, just remember where you got the design from and you had 3 decades to try to improve on it but it was built here by locals. Like George says lets give some credit to the local builders who paved the way.


    that liner in the intimidator is very light, just a few layers of glass, one person can easily pick it p.

  14. #118
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    Put up or shut up race around LI or anywhere, lets see.
    Put the craziest driver with the biggest family jewels in an OK built boat with fair power and you will probably have a winner!! Makes no sense to me but that is just my chicken old time PO!
    I think this thread is heading>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    RobF, Not sure anyone is taking any credit away from GL, in fact I see it as a form of flattery when his design has been copied soooo many times. What I feel the guys up North are trying to say with the Tuff is that they took a great design, made some personal improvement/changes and made it that much better with today's materials and building methods which gives you IMPO a great end product!

  15. #119
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    Call Steve pitbull
    Maybe I read something wrong but rbt claimed his original challenger with 2 batteries is only 150 lbs heavier than a infused tuff ?
    Rob... So I'm not the only one that gets that vibe
    Last edited by berzerko; 01-01-2013 at 04:33 PM.
    77 challenger 200 yami
    82 shadow 3.6 gt sold
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=g...&v=09QazIq2FgY

  16. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg G View Post
    The "new build" rough water SOB model line-up available for 2013 ............Tuff, Progression, Bernico, Nordic, Sutphen. Happy New Year

    Tuff 21 hull weight = 950lbs 208 Long, 77 Beam
    Progression 22 hull weight =<s>1225</s> lbs ..948lbs 221 Long, 78 Beam
    Bernico F2 21 hull weight = 705lbs 213 Long, 63 Beam
    Nordic Crossfire 21 hull weight= N/A 21 Long, 71 Beam
    Sutphen 21 SS hull weight = N/A 209 Long, 72 Beam
    I think it would be very cool to see all these new boats all do a "Round Long Island" race to see who wins. I wonder how the manufacturers would power each to compete

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