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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcrsr View Post
    ronnie, is that throttle body assy off an etec? my machinist had the same idea, i ended up going w/ the horn, i can ck the map sensor readings and see if there is any vacuum at wot. getting ready to assemble the short block today.

    I tried the horn on my motor, the air flow is too disrupted to 1-2 and 5-6. It ran, but it was obvious that the center horn is a problem. Going back to the down draft was a step in the right direction. But I am still in the infancy of test and tune and in the need of a custom set of rods. I bought a laser style svs off of e-bay awhile back and this will probably be my final choice of intake after some modification. The bottom end and mid range puts a 2.5 to shame, I can't wait to get a grip on the rest of it. I was pondering a dual horn set up as well, but they would probably have top be restricted down some.

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  3. #17
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    Lyn, On your Center Horn setup were you able to adjust the pulse width of the individual injectors like Charlie is be able to do with the V500 ECU?

  4. #18
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    subscribed,
    AWESOME!
    2023 TUFF 25

  5. #19
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    Very cool.... Subscribed.
    Cawley

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stitch King View Post
    Lyn, On your Center Horn setup were you able to adjust the pulse width of the individual injectors like Charlie is be able to do with the V500 ECU?
    Just by the pair.. the problem is'nt fuel, it's air. If you look at a 2.5 horn it is has a contured relief that allows a smoother path to the upper and lower cylinders. I basically did the same thing sawing off an old horn and used an old intake cover for the top of the plenum. It ran, but it just was'nt right. The new style down draft intake was much better, but I can't leave well enough alone yet lol. I know the Wolf has tremendous tuning variations but there is still a problem, so to speak. Just saying.

    It's been a fun motor to build, even having to saw the exhaust cover off and guess at a chest profile. With the 3.2 rotating assy it's been far less expensive than some of my 2.5+ projects. Hopefully this winter I can have a set of rods made and wrap it up. BTW I'm using an ADI set up and an older PCU. Charlie is on the right path with the Wolf system tho for sure.
    Last edited by Capt.Insane-o; 09-05-2012 at 10:37 PM.

  7. #21
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    i can individually adjust spark timing and fuel on each cylinder. as far as air flow issues, i went off alot of what i learned over the years w/ the 2.4's and 2.5's. when i welded the horn assy on i welded up the 90 degree turn the horn makes when it meets the plenum, and then cut into it from the inside, if you look straight into the horn you now can see cyls 2 and 5 in addition to 3 and 4. i also did a steep backcut to the reed plate, and cut down the dividers between 5 and 6 and 1 and 2, so hopefully this helps. the 3 liter factory plenum is a compromise at best, cyls 1 and 2 get starved for air(air comes in the throttle body tube, goes down, makes a "u" turn and then a 90 deg turn, and the bottom cyls have to deal w/ pulsation. in my exsisting fuel curves i'm pulling some fuel out of 1 and 2, which confirms this. 5 and 6 still get more fuel then 3 and 4 and probably has to do w/ the exhaust chest scavenging. i also pull a couple of degrees of timing from 5 and 6. i also compensated for the bank to bank differences in the software, my old engine was actually pretty good on fuel, even w/ the port timing it had, i could get 3.5 mpg on both boats when the motor was good, i pulled a compression on it and when built it was 155, its now down to the 120's, did a leakdown on 1 cylinder and it came back at 20%! that thing is done
    action mobile marine, 772 528 0754, dealers for aces fuel products,wolf efi, pro marine,latham and gaffrig/livorsi. we build gearcases and modify them(3 litre) to ratchet, and powerheads as well. 21 skater/3 litre wolf efi 113 mph the engine build http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-3-litre-build

  8. #22
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    ken, interesting that you mention the maf- isn't that a big impediment to airflow w/ all the ducting required, not to mention how do you calibrate it? the wolf will run one, but i thought you needed to know ve accurately to set it up? the dyno i'm using is simple and just allows me to load the engine, it has no electronic data features. as far as the map sensor, i calibrated it off the wolfs built in sensor, and it has been pretty much useless to use in a data input sense, as it doesn't vary all that much. i'd like to know how merc does it, obviously it can be made to work. when setting up the sensor you measure the output voltage(0-5 volts) over vacuum and input that into the calibration tables. this time around i was going to just connect the voltmeter to it and watch the voltage it puts out at different rpm points, and use that to input into the calibration table, i'm thinking if i do it this way i can make it a usable sensor, any thoughts? i have a bunch of runtime data logged i'd like to put up, but you can't play it without the wolf software, maybe i can video the laptop screen and then post the video?
    action mobile marine, 772 528 0754, dealers for aces fuel products,wolf efi, pro marine,latham and gaffrig/livorsi. we build gearcases and modify them(3 litre) to ratchet, and powerheads as well. 21 skater/3 litre wolf efi 113 mph the engine build http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-3-litre-build

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt.Insane-o View Post
    I tried the horn on my motor, the air flow is too disrupted to 1-2 and 5-6. It ran, but it was obvious that the center horn is a problem. Going back to the down draft was a step in the right direction. But I am still in the infancy of test and tune and in the need of a custom set of rods. I bought a laser style svs off of e-bay awhile back and this will probably be my final choice of intake after some modification. The bottom end and mid range puts a 2.5 to shame, I can't wait to get a grip on the rest of it. I was pondering a dual horn set up as well, but they would probably have top be restricted down some.
    the rods are the weakest point of this whole thing, i tried to keep everything as lite as possible, i was able to save 50 grams just by weighing all the rods i have here(50+) and came up w/ a set that were 50 grams less each. i also put the pistons in the mill, cut the skirts where they were blocking the ports at the bottom of the cyls and litened them as well and took off another 13 grams/ piston. the flywheel i took off 2.5 lbs, plus i had to do some machinework on it and get rid of the 60-6 reluctor wheel, i installed the older style 3 liter reluctor ring on it, as its easier to work w/ compared to the later style flywheel
    Last edited by mrcrsr; 09-06-2012 at 06:33 AM.
    action mobile marine, 772 528 0754, dealers for aces fuel products,wolf efi, pro marine,latham and gaffrig/livorsi. we build gearcases and modify them(3 litre) to ratchet, and powerheads as well. 21 skater/3 litre wolf efi 113 mph the engine build http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-3-litre-build

  10. #24
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    You are right setting up the MAF would be difficult. I forgot that there are no O2 sensors to tell you what's coming out the other side so yes measuring the incoming air would be pointless.

    On the MAP sensor, if I remember correctly it was only used as a reference to let the ECU know the engine was at idle since vacuum is pretty much only made at idle. I believe that Merc used it as a backup in case of a TPS failure. In the event of a TPS fail, the ECu would reference the MAP and allow the engine to operate in a limp home set of parameters.

  11. #25
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    Hell Yeah !!!!!!!!! Subscribed

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  12. #26
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    ken, it still doesn't explain how merc used a map sensor as a tps sensor of sorts to give the ecu throttle position info- one of the biggest tuning issues i've had is planing off- the motor cavitates but yet is at 6500 rpm wot- yet the ecu thinks its under full load-so the engine is rich and blubbery at that point and its something i've lived with, but am going to try and fix this time around
    action mobile marine, 772 528 0754, dealers for aces fuel products,wolf efi, pro marine,latham and gaffrig/livorsi. we build gearcases and modify them(3 litre) to ratchet, and powerheads as well. 21 skater/3 litre wolf efi 113 mph the engine build http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-3-litre-build

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stitch King View Post
    On the MAP sensor, if I remember correctly it was only used as a reference to let the ECU know the engine was at idle since vacuum is pretty much only made at idle.
    That makes sense cause they do go full rich and smoke like a freight train when the little tube gets plugged.

    Charlie- Your not running EGT probes in every cyl yet? I know its not a very cheap option but wont the wolf log them also? You could rifle 6 studs on the mill so that would save a few bucks. I know Sam and Bush swear by it (though they are not tuning a lake motor). Cool project, I have always wanted to crank case inject a 3.3 e-tec front half. Sam did recently and its mean and thats with old school SDS injection (non-sequential). Its only money
    Quartershot T-3R 15" 3.5L E-Tec 1.62 Sportmaster


  14. #28
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    had no problem running MAP as load sensing
    had to switch over as my self installed TPS sensor went bad
    redo the fuel map
    charlie is that an external map sensor on factory site,s they tend to have calibration sheets
    try googling the part number will take some time to sift through but you can get lucky
    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WHXl9hI1bj4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Last edited by PanRonnie; 09-06-2012 at 10:50 AM.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcrsr View Post
    ken, it still doesn't explain how merc used a map sensor as a tps sensor of sorts to give the ecu throttle position info- one of the biggest tuning issues i've had is planing off- the motor cavitates but yet is at 6500 rpm wot- yet the ecu thinks its under full load-so the engine is rich and blubbery at that point and its something i've lived with, but am going to try and fix this time around

    Charlie,
    Very, very nice work, it looks great. I did remember that there was mention in the Merc manual somewhere that the MAP sensor would take over in case of a TPS failure, I'll see if I can find that again. I think the MAP & Air Temp sensor worked hand in hand in case of a TPS failure.....Obviously you won't be running all out, but I think the intent was to allow you to get back to port.




    Gary

    Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional.......

  16. #30
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    here's a video of the datalog so you can see what the map sensor is doing, internal and external are hooked up, the external is the factory sensor mounted on the top of the plenum that a 300x would use, internal is built into the wolf View My Video
    action mobile marine, 772 528 0754, dealers for aces fuel products,wolf efi, pro marine,latham and gaffrig/livorsi. we build gearcases and modify them(3 litre) to ratchet, and powerheads as well. 21 skater/3 litre wolf efi 113 mph the engine build http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...-3-litre-build

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