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  1. #61
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    has anyone ever posted the block mods to a closed deck engine?
    Did we ever decide that the bottom 2 cylinders get a hard time as they are way cooler so probably have a higher bmep?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Instigator View Post
    Forgot about this thread and just stumbled upon it again.

    Here's one I just did after popping one of my Sonic motors due toooooooo......, wait for it.........., DETONATION
    Guess which hole too..............................?????????????????? #2.
    I think I've now popped 4 of my p.heads since we've been down here (7 yrs) in Fla. All four from detonation, and all four #2.
    Matter of fact, I think every popped motor I've bought down here ( 20 or 30) has lost #2.

    The Sonic motors are pig fat rich and still knocked the skirt off a piston. I knew I was on the edge w/compression vs octane and since I don't listen to anyone else.......

    Anyhow, heres the cooling mod very similar to what I did to the 3.3 mod motor and don't think I posted pix's of it. This is one of the Sonic motors and I've now done the mod to both.

    In the completed picture you have to look close to see the hoses behind the coils. I like keeping my motors stock appearing.
    I pulled the hoses with the motor running and I'm getting a steady flow of water (from hose and block) at idle. What my read is, is that after a mid/high speed blast, when you back off, the water pump slows down and the tops of #2 uncover from cooling water. These motors already run way lean at mid range, so the combustion chambers are already hot,, uncover the tops of the cylinders and powie!

    Funny thing too. was looking at a 3.3 p.head base gasket and I think it reverses cooling flow compared to the 3.0's. I know I tested both on the 3.3 and ended up w/the 3.0 gasket but I think only after doing this mod. The gasket may do it. Course you then have to pull the p.head to install it.

    So now the question is, do I have the stones to run these motors again on the same octane to accurately test the effects of my mod's Serious doubts..

    Bottom of block at exhaust.



    Top of block. (both are 1/8" npt by 1/4" hose barb)



    Completed.

    How do I do to be able to view these pics?
    //Anders

  3. #63
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    The bottom cyls do have a denser charge since they are cooler. This is why they reduced compression on the bottom two.

    All the newer di stuff back to fichts are cooled similar to how Al mods the carb engines. Heads are still the last to get water and on the di stuff cyl temp is high all the time.
    Quartershot T-3R 15" 3.5L E-Tec 1.62 Sportmaster


  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerabout View Post
    has anyone ever posted the block mods to a closed deck engine?
    Did we ever decide that the bottom 2 cylinders get a hard time as they are way cooler so probably have a higher bmep?
    The exhaust scavenging also sucks.

    The runners transition 180* before exiting the adsptor.
    I'd rather be competitive w/junk I built in my garage than win w/stuff I bought.


    I refuse to allow common sense to interfere w/my boat buying decisions.


    Checkmate 16' 140 Johnson
    Hydrostream 17' Vector FrankenRude I
    Laser 480 (?) 21' w/GT 200
    Glastron Carlson Conquest w/XP 2.6
    Glastron Carlson CVX 20 w/XP 2.6
    24' Sonic w/twin 250 Johnsons
    24' Sonic w/twin 250 HO Johnsons
    19' STV River Rocket w/FrankenRude II
    Allison XR 2002 w/Frankenrude II
    Hydrostream 18' V-King w/Frankenrude II

  5. #65
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    The bottom and top exhaust looks similar its the middle 2 that have a lot shorter pipes as thats the join then it goes down to the bottom.
    When we know no 2 blows and 5 and 6 have an issue that the factory recognised then you look at the exhaust and its hard to see the connection
    but yes the bottom 2 have a 180 to get out.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Looper open exhaust chest.jpg  
    Last edited by powerabout; 08-23-2017 at 06:47 AM.

  6. #66
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    If scavenging less on the bottom 2 what do we get?
    Less reverse pulse so less bmep?
    and does that mean less carb signal so leaner?
    cooler ( due to water passages) so more bmep with leaner mixture?
    so how do we get No2 blowing up?

  7. #67
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    very good amount of info on this topic.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by baja200merk View Post
    The bottom cyls do have a denser charge since they are cooler. This is why they reduced compression on the bottom two.

    All the newer di stuff back to fichts are cooled similar to how Al mods the carb engines. Heads are still the last to get water and on the di stuff cyl temp is high all the time.
    You figure the fresh incoming charge has enough time to shed ambient temperature and heat of compression from the case and gain density before entering cyl? What's the fire order , could be that two cyl are lower because of tuned pairs stuffing effect is strong compared to the long run out of the three. At speed the long run may be delayed too long and arrival may be near closing raising compression or not stuffing effectively.

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  10. #69
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    1-6 is firing order.

    Bottom cyls run coolest since they r the first to get cool water. If you run the same compression on all 6 u will need to go up a couple sizes on the lower mains. The factory reduced compression in bottom two. Yamaha does the same
    Quartershot T-3R 15" 3.5L E-Tec 1.62 Sportmaster


  11. #70
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    Yamaha does it for the same reason. No need to richen because cyl pressure at speed about the same. Bottom cylinders first because they have more chance to heat at speed. That's how I figure it works

  12. #71
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    so why is no2 is the one that blows up?

  13. #72
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    What's the fire order, top bottom mid? Then bottom is stuffing top , longest run could be a weak stuff . Could be at high rpm just plain too much heat being last on cooling.

  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerabout View Post
    so why is no2 is the one that blows up?
    Yep.. the magic question? both 1&2 get the same water that"s already run past a glowing hot exhaust runner... but #2 has the thrust face on the exhaust port side, if one of the 2 fails most likely going to be the left side. You would think 3 & 4 get the hottest water it goes in right above where the 3 cylinders meet at the middle of the ex-runner (hot hot hot)mixed with hot water thats already past by the top cylinder exhaust port. The etecs plumb some cool water into the block 1/2 way up by the use of hoses and a closed off base gasket to help cool the runners and im sure it gets cooler water to the upper cyls. Dave

  15. #74
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    Added hoses on my latest project (way behind, moving ect..) lower hose cools runners in 2/3 area upper has metal tee and aims water at upper cyl inlet areas, have another plug to move it up if it doesnt work out as planned lol.. Dave
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Resized_20170824_073508_1503574885975.jpg  
    Last edited by H2OPERF; 08-24-2017 at 07:02 AM.

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  17. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMP View Post
    Yamaha does it for the same reason. No need to richen because cyl pressure at speed about the same. Bottom cylinders first because they have more chance to heat at speed. That's how I figure it works
    no need to richen bottom cyls if all compression is even? Have you ever tuned a v6 looper?
    Quartershot T-3R 15" 3.5L E-Tec 1.62 Sportmaster


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